Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

464 replies

Flaky · 18/01/2018 09:21

So he is then upset by them being mean to him and doesn't want to go to school?

This is at least the 3rd occasion a kid like this has been moved next to him.

Last year the teacher admitted that she had done it so DS's good influence rubs off but why should he suffer for it?

He's the youngest in the class as well (Yr2)and some of these DC are almost a whole year older.

Isn't this just very lazy teaching?

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 18/01/2018 14:28

it seems to have had no ill effects on DD socially or educationally and I wonder whether that's because I shrugged it off as just being the way things work. I know she'd have preferred not to sit next to this child, but she didn't ask me to intervene and I wouldn't have been keen to anyhow

I think the fact it's all pitched as somehow a choice between a kid getting their work disrupted or the kids being taught in a cage Hmm kinda proves how we all just shrug it off and girls in particular just have to put up and shut up.

As i said befire surely there's a third option of dealing with the problems

Gileswithachainsaw · 18/01/2018 14:31

And I say that as a girl who was bullied from pre school who kept quiet for fear of a) making it worse
B) no one believing me
C) I'll probably be pushed into spending time with the kids anyway giving them the chance to take the piss further and me being the bitch for not accepting the forced apologies

DailyMailReadersAreThick · 18/01/2018 14:31

Teachers did this to me when I was in school. These kids I was supposed to be a good influence on bullied me so badly I attempted suicide and spent 6 months in hospital when I was 13.

No way would I let a child of mine be used like I was.

whiskyowl · 18/01/2018 14:36

I'm so sorry dailymail, that is appalling. Flowers

AaronPurrSir · 18/01/2018 14:37

After having put up with it for several years, one day after a completely unproductive lesson being stuck doing group work with the naughty boys I flipped out. When the teacher went around to ask each group what they had produced, when she got to mine I said we had achieved absolutely nothing, as the rest of my group refused to do any work and had just pissed about for 45mins.

This did not go down well - I was the negative one, the one who had let everyone down, who got a telling off from the teacher.

How does that work?! Hmm

toomuchtooold · 18/01/2018 14:49

I had the same experience as whiskyowl. I think it's a method that might work with kids who're a bit fidgety/class clown etc but when you're talking about kids with antisocial PD or conduct disorders or whatever, sorry but it's the job of the adults to socialise that kid, not their classmates.

And it's such bullshit about it toughening you up. It just retraumatised me to the point that, in later life I would dissolve into crying and hyperventilating when anyone was the slightest bit sharp with me. And actually, after I left school I never met anyone who was as mentally ill as some of the kids I got paired off with in school - they all either ended up in jail or dead, apart from one guy who (hats off to him) seems to have got his life in order and now has a career and is married with kids. I spent 10 years of my life thinking there was something wrong with me because I couldn't just "stand up to the bullies" but since the day I left school I've never had to deal with anyone even half as mental as the kids I got sat next to in school.

theEagleIsLost · 18/01/2018 14:51

In my case the girls just needed moving elsewhere within the class - they'd existed happily in the class room previous years.

It was part of a larger dismissive attitude towards my DD1 issues - sensory issues, reading and spelling issues all flagged up by pervious teachers being dismissed. Teacher tried to blame DD1 stress on our parenting - despite no changes and no previous issues.

Everything was dismissed till she lost it in school and it suddenly became an issue that couldn't be dismissed.

It is happening with DS now as well as my daughters but it took him maturing for it to be a more permeant thing - previously it got an instant negative reaction.

it seems to have had no ill effects on DD socially or educationally and I wonder whether that's because I shrugged it off as just being the way things work

I couldn’t shrug it off Hmm

DD1 was having melt downs as soon as she step in the front door with two younger children it was extemelt difficult to deal with but – then it got so bad it was happen as soon as she left school and refusing to go into school and leave me.

That was first time I'd ever had to complain for DD1 - she mght not have been happy but she'd coped.

I didn't have to do anything with DS as his behaviour deteriorated so rapidly the teachers always sorted it immediately.

I suspect DD1 and DS cope with disruption now because they are older and, with help, are struggling a lot less with their own issues. They have more tolerance capacity - possible why DD2 has always been less bothered as she's not had her siblings issues.

If Op DS is getting to stage he doesn't want to go to school then I think it needs acting on now at very least approaching the teacher to raise concerns.

Zerosugaroption · 18/01/2018 14:54

This whole thread wouldn’t exist if SEN education was properly funded.

Think of that when your PTAs are deciding what to find.

crunchymint · 18/01/2018 15:03

Not all children who misbehave have SEN

CuppaTeaTime2 · 18/01/2018 15:09

I haven't read all 9 pages but I 100% agree with you.

When I was in school, I was one of the 'angelic', hardworking children and I was always put next to the naughty children. It really annoyed me because I couldn't concentrate as I was distracted, and didn't have a fellow hardworking classmate to work with.

I would specifically ask the teacher to move your child next to a child of a similar ability and work ethic, as his concentration and work is being affected.

goodbyestranger · 18/01/2018 15:12

Giles the child was a nightmare in terms of behaviour but I could see what the family background was like and felt sorry for him. I have no regrets at all for not stepping in. It was probably valuable for DD too in some way; part of co-operating in a society.

MissP103 · 18/01/2018 15:21

Yanbu op speak to the teacher and ask them to move your dc. Why should your dc be punished with a naughty child. How does it benefit your d's?

Jux · 18/01/2018 15:28

@italiangreyhound in the past. We spent quite a few years telling dd that she could go to a different school, and there was a better one closer to home too, but she had strong friendships where she was, and stuck it out until first year of sixthform. Then she just completely list faith in the school (somdid we, there was a shocking incident, well several) and dd left, started her A levels again at the local college. She is doing well, and has just got offers from her two preferred Unis.

I was disgusted when she mentioned that these boys had just picked her up and carried her round the classroom and then deposited her on the teacher's podium. I was all set the phone the school but then she said it had happened the year before, but happened in most lessons. The teacher was absolutely useless. DD had been a promising scientist up until then but I didn't realise that her waning interest in it was due to the crap teacher until it was too late.

However, I think it does show that if your child is interested in learning then that is what they will do, so people can take some comfort from that. The problem is that they will not do as well as they would if the unruly pupils were dealt with better, in a different way. And they will do better still if they are encouraged to focus on learning in various forms, and not having to worry about looking after children who aren't interested.

Zerosugaroption · 18/01/2018 15:45

Crunchymint children whose behaviour is disruptive or who cannot learn through the usual teaching methods fall squarely under the umbrella of needing different/special provision, otherwise known as Special Educational Need.

niccyb · 18/01/2018 16:11

His happened to my daughter on three occasions in high school. On the last occasion the child was constantly interrupting my daughter and flicking her and calling her names. Nothing was done because this child was in foster care and had social difficulties. I wouldn’t mind but she was ahead in her English set and I was told they couldn’t move her up as they had no one to swap her with.
I demanded hat my child also had a right to an education and that they move her with immediate effect or a complaint would be taken up with the governors. It hasn’t happened since

DailyMailReadersAreThick · 18/01/2018 16:13

This whole thread wouldn’t exist if SEN education was properly funded.

Crunchymint children whose behaviour is disruptive or who cannot learn through the usual teaching methods fall squarely under the umbrella of needing different/special provision, otherwise known as Special Educational Need.

Utter nonsense.

Gileswithachainsaw · 18/01/2018 16:14

But that's the point zero

That this shouldn't be the usual teaching method.

If you have tried multiple methods and ideas and attempted every known way of controlling behaviour then yes you can say that.

If you keep dumping them on kids you know are too quiet to speak up then acting surprised when you find out they haven't learnt anything then I don't think you can just say they have AN.

whiskyowl · 18/01/2018 16:14

Really? So a psychopath has SEN? Because one of the kids I was sat next to was a psychopath - diagnosed later in jail, but very much the same as a child.

whiskyowl · 18/01/2018 16:22

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like an accusation or a challenge! I'd just not associated SEN with children with personality disorders or behavioural issues that didn't impact on academic ability before - I'd always assumed that it was more ability-related, i.e. if the child had a fairly severe impairment in one area for a whole host of reasons. As opposed to an averagely bright child who could learn in all areas but had terrible behaviour due to psychological problems.

(I am the one who is in need of education here!)

whiskyowl · 18/01/2018 16:22

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like an accusation or a challenge! I'd just not associated SEN with children with personality disorders or behavioural issues that didn't impact on academic ability before - I'd always assumed that it was more ability-related, i.e. if the child had a fairly severe impairment in one area for a whole host of reasons. As opposed to an averagely bright child who could learn in all areas but had terrible behaviour due to psychological problems.

(I am the one who is in need of education here!)

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 18/01/2018 16:24

I had to endure this at school too. It was a miserable experience and I ended up not wanting to go because I spent my days at table with three rough and disruptive boys who just spent their time tormenting me. It’s lazy, shit teaching.

Howdydoodyfolks · 18/01/2018 16:26

Have skimmed through the thread so apologies if I am repeating what has been said a hundred times! YES it Is lazy teaching to put the "challenging" kid next to a good one, as is keeping the whole class in for something 1 child has done thereby punishing the whole lot. Oh and the classic of give the "challenging"kid the fun job to do so that they act better next time - whilst the pupils with lovely behaviour sit there seething at the injustice.
Yes I work in a secondary school and these methods are still carrying on.....annoys the hell out of me and the pupils.

Alpacaandgo · 18/01/2018 16:33

You should get her moved. This is shit lazy teaching and happened to my ds. He was steaming ahead at school until he had to sit next to naughty kid after naughty kid and ended up bullied so badly he needed councilling at age 10 and his school work now is shockingly behind.

I still fume so much when I think of it because I didn't realise until too late what was going on.

It's not up to good kids to control the horrible ones, that's the teachers job. Please don't put up with it.

And one more thing, when my ds first started getting bullied, the teacher suggested he could sit in the corridor if he didn't want to sit next to horrible brat kid. Still makes me so mad 😡

Zerosugaroption · 18/01/2018 16:52

Dailymailreadersarethick which part of my post is utter nonsense? I’m all ears.

Zerosugaroption · 18/01/2018 16:54

The term 'special educational needs' has a legal definition, referring to children who have learning problems or disabilities that make it harder for them to learn than most children of the same age. Many children will have special needs of some kind at some time during their education.

Help will usually be provided in their ordinary school, sometimes with the help of specialists. If your child has special educational needs, they may need extra help in a range of areas, for example:

schoolwork
reading, writing, number work or understanding information
expressing themselves or understanding what others are saying
making friends or interacting with adults
behaving properly in school
organising themselves
some kind of sensory or physical needs which may affect them in school.