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All Trump sees is green. All we see is a traitorous orange menace. Who is right? Place bets now!! (Trump continued)

968 replies

badbadhusky · 17/01/2018 22:57

A nod to Banzai there for old timers like me.

Old thread here.

Question is, is it Mueller time yet? Anyone fancy placing a bet on when Trump will exit the POTUS role?

My bet: 20 March 2019.

OP posts:
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Minimammoth · 22/01/2018 08:38

Can someone explain the government shutdown. How has that happened, does the money come from taxes? Have they not just been slashed?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 10:01

From the bbc:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42769951

Why has the government shut down?
It missed a deadline. At midnight on Friday, lawmakers failed to agree on a spending bill. The bill was not a plan for funding for the whole of 2018, but would have kept things running until the middle of next month.

Democrats refused to back a temporary deal until their concerns on immigration reform were dealt with.

Efforts to reach a compromise ahead of the working week failed late on Sunday.

A vote to end the shutdown was postponed until midday (17:00 GMT) on Monday, meaning many federal government offices will not open.

Why the US government has shut down
Under Senate rules, the bill needs 60 votes in the 100-member chamber.

The Republicans currently have 51 senators, so they need some Democratic support to pass a budget.

Democrats want President Trump to negotiate over immigration as part of a budget deal, but Republicans say no agreement is possible while federal government services are closed.

Republicans want funding for border security - including a proposed border wall with Mexico - and immigration reforms, as well as increased military spending.

On Saturday, Mr Trump said the "nuclear option" of a simple majority vote was necessary to end the impasse.

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
Great to see how hard Republicans are fighting for our Military and Safety at the Border. The Dems just want illegal immigrants to pour into our nation unchecked. If stalemate continues, Republicans should go to 51% (Nuclear Option) and vote on real, long term budget, no C.R.’s!

What does a shutdown mean?
It means no pay for those federal employees who are "furloughed" - on unpaid leave - even though their workplaces are not open.

Most staff in the departments of housing, environment, education and commerce will be staying at home on Monday. Half of workers in the treasury, health, defence and transportation departments will also not be going to work.

Visa and passport processing could be delayed.

But essential services that protect "life or human property" will continue, including national security, postal services, air traffic control, some medical services, disaster assistance, prisons, taxation and electricity generation.

And the Trump administration said it planned to keep national parks open - their closure in the 2013 shutdown provoked an angry public reaction.

The shutdown began on the first anniversary of President Trump's inauguration. His trip to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, has also been called into question.

The last government shutdown was in 2013, and lasted for 16 days.

It cost the government $2bn in lost productivity and led to "significant negative effects on the economy", the OMB said at the time.

Why can the two sides not agree?
This is the first time a government shutdown has happened while one party, the Republicans, controls both Congress and the White House.

Friday's vote fell 50-49, far short of the 60 needed to advance the bill. This is due to a number of key disagreements.

Democrats have demanded protection from deportation of more than 700,000 undocumented immigrants who entered the US as children.

"I hope it is just a matter of hours or days. But we need to have a substantive answer, and the only person who can lead us to that is President Trump. This is his shutdown," Democratic Senator Dick Durbin told the CBS network on Saturday.

But Vice-President Mike Pence reiterated his party's stance in a speech to US troops in the Middle East on Sunday.

"We're not going to reopen negotiations on illegal immigration until they reopen the government and give you, our soldiers and your families, the benefits and wages you've earned," he said.

ChooChooLaverne · 22/01/2018 10:05

Another lurker and very infrequent poster popping up to say thank you for all the fine work you do here.

Don't know if this has been posted but it really makes me laugh:

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 10:34
Grin

I have to say, I'm still distracted by the idiocy tumbling out of his mouth, despite the beautiful musical performance.

BiglyBadgers · 22/01/2018 11:21

The bill was not a plan for funding for the whole of 2018, but would have kept things running until the middle of next month.

I just noticed that line from the BBC article above. Does this mean that even if they get agreement on this deal they would be likely to have to do it again in a months time?

Lweji · 22/01/2018 12:13

I'm currently listening to a conference about the 1st year of Trump by a Portuguese university, with national personalities.
Interesting perspectives.

It made me laugh a reference to a published analysis saying that with Trump, international relationships/law would suffer Murphy's law.

Some of them seem less knowledgeable than many pps on these threads. Grin

Now talking about how Europe is currently incapable of replacing the international leadership that the USA has left vacant.

Minimammoth · 22/01/2018 12:19

Thank you Pain, not just sums then. Wink a game of chess.

Lweji · 22/01/2018 12:26

"Trump doesn't act on reality, he acts on words, and he has understood that he can transform his words in reality."

"(Post-truth) is frightening because Europe can't talk/relate to Trump because we still use a rational speech, whereas Trump uses irrationality"

"Normalization because the consequences are never as bad as we think they might be"

"He's out of control, because we haven't found a way of dealing with him"

BiglyBadgers · 22/01/2018 12:52

"(Post-truth) is frightening because Europe can't talk/relate to Trump because we still use a rational speech, whereas Trump uses irrationality"

This sums up my reading of the situation very well. I also think it is why we have such a problem knowing what to do about Russia. The only difference is that Russian irrationality is a planned strategy, whereas Trump is just irrational.

PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2018 13:08

Agreed. But planned irrationality in the US sits one layer behind Trump. He doesn't have self-awareness or an understanding of what rationality is, and the people behind him picked him for this.

He's a good authoritarian leader because in his mind he is the truth. He just needs people around him to do the actual work.

PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2018 13:09

What I'm trying to say is, that irrationality in the US is a planned strategy too.

Lweji · 22/01/2018 13:14

PerkingFaintly

I don't disagree. Although I don't think the specifics are planned.

Lweji · 22/01/2018 13:18

From a journalist:
"I just don't understand why Bannon left the WH. What for?"

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 13:24

Denying reality is what's happening here too with Brexit - yes of course it's possible to create an entirely bespoke deal that confers extra advantages that we definitely don't already have at no cost Hmm.

That's probably due to the fact that both Brexit and Trump happened on the backs of so many lies - where else can they go other than to maintain the fictional world? And again, it'll be those who are most vulnerable that will bear the brunt of the being shafted while those who have money or power will be able to insulate themselves from the effects of what they have wrought upon the rest of us.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 13:29

Inside The Fight For The Soul Of Kaspersky Lab

Kaspersky Lab is under fire in the US over concerns that it could provide its clients' private — and at times secret — information to the Russian government. A new investigation by Russian news site Meduza, published here exclusively in English, goes inside the battle for control of the company — a battle sources say was won by the side allied with Russian security services.

www.buzzfeed.com/ilyazhegulev/russia-kaspersky-antivirus?utm_term=.wjxjQLgZ#.psXVE3gK

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 13:33

This serendipitously just popped up on my timeline:

Chris Hayes‏Verified account
@chrislhayes
As I keep saying: the origin of all of this [he's referring to the government shutdown specifically] is the president’s signature campaign promise: We’re gonna build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it. We’re all in this predicament because it was never possible, and now the entire government has to cover for it.

Mitch Benn
‏*@MitchBenn*
Exactly; meanwhile over HERE we’re in a similar mess because THIS government is also committed to something it knows is impossible (a Brexit that DOESN’T bankrupt the country) and the entire political system is pretending otherwise.

We need REALITY in politics.

Lweji · 22/01/2018 13:40

We need REALITY in politics.

Yes! And yet...

cozietoesie · 22/01/2018 13:43

Another book. I can barely take it.

Wink
cozietoesie · 22/01/2018 13:46

From WaPo.

Defiance Disorder

PerkingFaintly · 22/01/2018 13:47

Well indeed, Lweji. Which takes us back to Sarah Kendzior's tweet of two quotes:

  1. From Trump
  2. From Trump's chief strategist, Steve Bannon
pic.twitter.com/lKMoDpMW0X

Mere destruction is enough for some. Destroy structures and then those with other forms of power like money, ownership of media, ownership of means of production, ownership of armed forces, can have a free for all. It's very Victorian.

Citizens without those forms of power rely on the state to accord them rights and to enforce those rights (equal access to justice, equal access to education, jobs, housing). Smash the state, and the barons can take all.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 13:47

Apologies cosie, didn't see you'd posted it already!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 13:47

cozie Blush

cozietoesie · 22/01/2018 13:49

Hah! I attempted to but it didn't 'take' so thanks for your post, Pain. Smile

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 13:56

Conditions for disaster capitalism have been carefully fostered (interestingly, when I started typing "disaster capitalism" into google it threw up as the first suggestion "disaster capitalism brexit")