To wish my friend would give it a rest about her birth experience?

[Heatherbell1978]

One of my friends gave birth 6 years ago to her DD. By all accounts it was fairly traumatic; induction, 2 day labour then emergency CS. I think she was taken by surprise by the experience and it shook her up. Her DD was difficult and she went back to work quite early from mat leave. She's a high flyer and quite a perfectionist so things just didn't work out quite as prefect. She won't have any more kids now.

I was very sympathetic at the time although didn't have my own experience to call upon. She used to talk about it all the time and get quite drunk and angry while doing so.

Wind on a few years and I've had DS and DD. Neither birth was 'easy'; DS was back to back and I had a post partum heamorrage after DD which meant a rush into surgery. But both were quick, gas and air only and water births so very lucky in that respect.

I don't see said friend very often but when I do she still talks about the birth. She brought it up while on my birthday night out at the weekend in a very animated way going on about how people who don't have epidurals are stupid for trying to do it naturally and just how horrific it all is. I kept quiet as I just couldn't be bothered saying that actually my experience wasn't but it was a clear dig at me.

Could she still be suffering with some kind of post traumatic stress or something?!

That's my own experience and I will not have that denied by a mumsnet virtue signaller..

And yet you're expecting these women to deny their experiences because you judge them to be no worse than your own.

Nobody is "virtue signalling" on this thread. They're being honest and up front about the devastating impact of PTSD. You clearly don't have any experience of it and that's fine - I'm genuinely pleased for you as I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But don't act like these women are somehow weak or ungrateful for being so heavily impacted by a traumatic birth. That's what's vile.

@MiaowTheCat

I could have written your first post word for word. Awful awful birth with prem DD1 (6 this year) due to various factors including medical cock ups. Lasting issues for DD, thankfully minor but still there. Then a very difficult babyhood. DD2 born super fast and easily and should have been a fairly easy baby (except I was so frigging scared of it all being like it had been with DD1 that I developed PND).

Just like you I have the "funny" version I tell people over drinks. It really wasn't at all funny though. For some reason I do feel a need to tell people about it, albeit I keep to the abridged "funny" version. I don't know why. Maybe it is PTSD.

So all those saying the lady in question sounds like she has PTSD and try and get some help are insensitive and ignorant and it doesn't work like that.

What do you suggest?

What do you suggest?

Compassion from her peers would be a nice start. Instead of some of the comments on here.

peach sorry it was just meant as an aside - like 'yes I agree with you, did you also know...'

It was very clear you weren't in the 'well I had it worst and I sorted it out so what's their problem' camp!

@Morphene Haha no worries, I was concerned I'd misspoken somewhere or not been clear. :)

When you say compassion do you mean listening to her torture herself over and over and offering some arm chair psychology.
That to me is neither compassionate nor being a friend.
Pushing her to go and get therapy and talk to someone who knows how to help her is I think is far more compassionate.

OMG why do posters who know NOTHING about PTSD post on these threads.

Look, if you haven't experienced ptsd following birth, lucky you. And for the love of god don't judge a woman who has. It's a terrible, intrusive and highly distressing syndrome, and there really is nothing worse than a smugpants mum telling you it doesn't matter (that you can't sleep, eat, focus, trust or even breathe properly because the baby's healthy)

And to all of you lovely women who have suffer birth trauma, be it recent or many years ago, I'd urge you to get in touch with the Birth Trauma support charity, they're fantastic. You don't have to live like this anymore.

@oliver

Some posters on here seem to be more occupied with shutting her up because, “I had a difficult birth too you know... why doesn’t she just...”? It doesn’t seem very compassionate, sorry. It just comes across to me like minimising and competing.

miowthecat thats such an excellent anaology and very true. I think the ops problem is she cant force her friend to go. Hopefully she will.

You don't sound like a very compassionate person. She may have ptsd and can't understand or process the experience.

Miaow someone will be along in a minute to tell you they managed to pack their bag on their own and the messy clothes are a result of keep pulling them all out all the time

I suffered PTSD after having my DS 6 years ago. The birth was utterly horrifying and my blood still runs cold thinking about it. I most certainly will not have another child. I probably do talk about it a lot to others. I have quite a dry sense of humour which I use when talking about it, and actually it's quite cathartic to just talk. I think I deal with a lot of unpleasant things through humour and it's probably just the way I deal with things. I would never tell the full gory story to someone about to give birth for the first time, but amongst friends I feel comfortable in discussing the details and their support has been really helpful in helping me to come to terms with everything. I think you are being a little harsh, OP. PTSD isn't just something you can easily 'get over'....

I don't think, in fairness to the OP, that her problem is so much with her friend discussing her birth experience; rather that her friends uses her birth experience to put others down and belittle them:
"It's the manner by which she talks about it though. Very loudly, angry and condescending to people who have had easier experiences."

And to all of you lovely women who have suffer birth trauma, be it recent or many years ago, I'd urge you to get in touch with the Birth Trauma support charity, they're fantastic. You don't have to live like this anymore

So when I suggested getting help I was called ignorant and how it doesn't work like that.

From what the op had written about her friend it sounded like a birthing story myself and several of my friends went through.
Whilst it might be a shock, once you talk to others and listen to their stories it puts it in perspective.
From what the op is saying this woman doesn't want to know about what others went through.
She seems very dismissive of other peoples experiences and doesn't want to listen to others.

I have a friend who went through a birth so horrific that she could never carry a baby to term again and ended up having reconstructive surgery 13 years later.
Another friend who (I wont go into details as it is so bad) ended up suing the hospital and winning as her dcs birth went so horribly wrong that she didn't end up with a healthy baby at the end.

I know women who have gone through births on a couple of aspirin and I know women who have nearly died.
Giving birth for the first time cannot be planned. No matter how much thought you put into your birth plan you don't know how things are going to go.

Yes I agree with that Thumb. Of course it's terrible what this woman has gone through but sh cannot take her experience out on people that haven't gone through the same thing by being angry and condescending.

People will switch off from that kind of behaviour. Most of us have been through some kind of trauma in our lives ( I have ptsd ) but it doesn't give people the right to minimise other people's experience.

Tbf, I get why the op finds her friend’s behaviour upsetting - I said so on page one I think. She doesn’t have to listen to it. She doesn’t have to even be friends with her - in fact it sounds like the op doesn’t even like her with all this, “she’s a high flyer who wants everything perfect”, chat.

What I really object to is how the conversation has developed from a small minority of posters on here since. When people’s immediate reaction to someone else’s traumatic birth is to say, “well I had a hard birth too and I’m just fine. It’s because I just focussed on having a healthy baby at the end of it. Why doesn’t she just do that?”, I immediately think that person is lacking in compassion and empathy. If someone said it to someone irl, I’d immediately think a little less of them. It’s shallow thinking - I’m fine. Why isn’t everyone? Just my take on it, obviously.

Could she still be suffering with some kind of post traumatic stress or something?!

Please don't rule this out. It seems she has little support within her family - she may not realise she needs it, but she needs support.

I've just gone to a funeral this week. She was in her 70s and had undiagnosed post natal depression after the birth of her first child. It went from that to psychosis after the birth of her third, after which she got treatment.

She ultimately died from this psychosis, albeit 45 years later.

Good point DailyMail.

If you're a real friend you do have to accept the fact that obviously this woman was traumatised by her birth experience and needs to talk about it. I think at the right time I'd suggest that she has counselling because six years is a very long time to still feel the need to go on about it and especially on a night out. I don't think you are being U to feel a bit fed up of this but you'd be U to tell her to give it a rest!

Jesus @Oliversmumsarmy, give it a rest. You can't put things in perspective when you have PTSD. That's not how it works.

The event that triggered my PTSD was something that happens to everyone - unpleasant but not necessarily traumatic. That didn't make any difference. It didn't help me to hear other people's experience. I was unable to put it into any kind of context or perspective. I was mentally ill and completely broken.

You have made it patently obvious that you don't have any understanding of PTSD so please stop offering your ill-informed opinion.

Not sure how to get through to you oliversmummy because you seemed determined to ignore all the information around birth trauma offered here but one last try,,,

Birth trauma is NOT determined by your assessment of what was a difficult birth. It is not about how many stitches or interventions or however many other competitive suffering elements you wish to apply. You are demonstrating your very deep ignorance in even suggesting so.

Let me spell it out for you.

Two seemingly identical births will be experienced quite differently by the respective mothers. This is because all women are different. It is also because care quality varies widely between providers.

My first experience of birth left me deeply traumatised and I received state funded psychiatric help to the tune of £4000 within 6 months. Seven maternity care staff were formally warned. One resigned.

Yet on paper the birth appeared textbook, physically healthy baby and mother.

Second child was surgically removed- forceps during c section as they were so tightly wedged in. The anaesthetic failed. The baby spent their early days in special care.

However I was not remotely traumatised, I felt safe and cared for. The hospital acknowledged the anaesthetist's error within hours, apologised profusely, offered to help me make a formal complaint.
The maternity ward staff were exceptionally kind and respectful. Special care staff not so much but they certainly cared for the baby.

Zero trauma to me.

So you see, a physical analysis of birth is not an indicator of the impact on the mother"s mental well-being.

Really oliversmummy you need to pull your head in.

You are being an unreasonable twat.

When you go through a traumatic birth the best thing to do is talk about it and have your thoughts supported.

I went through a traumatic birth last year and I'm sure I bored my friends to death but getting it out in the open and off my chest helped me.

I even wrote a blog about it to clear my head too!

I don't think you like her so it's odd that you describe her as a friend. She's traumatised and dealing with it badly (self-medicating with booze, reliving). If it bugs you and you have no empathy for her, stop seeing her.

Full disclosure my birth was like hers a d I still cry when anyone mentions their "normal" births or I see it on TV. I know I'm BU. But I can't help it.