To wish my friend would give it a rest about her birth experience?

[Heatherbell1978]

One of my friends gave birth 6 years ago to her DD. By all accounts it was fairly traumatic; induction, 2 day labour then emergency CS. I think she was taken by surprise by the experience and it shook her up. Her DD was difficult and she went back to work quite early from mat leave. She's a high flyer and quite a perfectionist so things just didn't work out quite as prefect. She won't have any more kids now.

I was very sympathetic at the time although didn't have my own experience to call upon. She used to talk about it all the time and get quite drunk and angry while doing so.

Wind on a few years and I've had DS and DD. Neither birth was 'easy'; DS was back to back and I had a post partum heamorrage after DD which meant a rush into surgery. But both were quick, gas and air only and water births so very lucky in that respect.

I don't see said friend very often but when I do she still talks about the birth. She brought it up while on my birthday night out at the weekend in a very animated way going on about how people who don't have epidurals are stupid for trying to do it naturally and just how horrific it all is. I kept quiet as I just couldn't be bothered saying that actually my experience wasn't but it was a clear dig at me.

Could she still be suffering with some kind of post traumatic stress or something?!

Sounds like she went through a difficult time and needs help. Understandably it cant be expected to come from you. She should not take it out on you either. If it is difficult to suggest she gets help (and I can see how it might be or there might be a backlash) is she someone you might want to gradually move away from?

@Dipitydoda I agree. The understanding of PTSD is pretty shocking in general. "She's just being self-indulgent" - good grief.

I was very lucky and suffered very mildly compared to most. I was also lucky in that medical professionals identified and diagnosed it early on, and that I have a very supportive and understanding partner who helps me in just the right ways. But it's still completely changed my life and controlled it entirely for two years.

I feel sorry for anyone suffering from it, no matter how it makes them behave.

I agree with the last few posters. The poor woman is traumatised. You say your friends who didn't have children were not interested in the topic and yet the mothers weren't interested either. It's something I feel very strongly about. I had a traumatic birth too, nothing to the sand effect but it has been made very clear to me that no one cares if you nearly die in childbirth. It's a woman's issue that is just not interesting to people. I've listened with sympathy and brought gifts and sympathy to friends going through illnesses etc no matter how easily treated. But mention childbirth and you get the eye roll, and the " it's not as if you're the first person to have a child" look.

Self indulgent?! Wow!

Shes clearly massively struggling still. It doesn't make her self indulgent for fuck sake!

Op can you have a heart to heart with her? Tell her you're worried and would she ever consider speaking to someone to try and come to terms with what happened? You can look up a good, local counsellor specialising in PTSD and hand her the details. Don't compare your birth experiences even if she makes digs, she's obviously devastated about the way it all went. You can't just distance yourself for fuck sake!

Please, please try and help her, don't just abandon her.

The OP has sympathised and listened though. For 6 years.

Gosh it so could have been me you were describing.

There is something called post traumatic depression, which doesn't come with the vivid flashbacks typical of PTSD, but still causes all sorts of MH issues and often leads to people repeatedly talking about their traumatic experience.

I was lucky and got treatment a mere 4 years after the birth and am finally feeling like I have my life back.

I hope your friend can engage with the same.

It does sound as though she has some PTSD, yes.

My mother would have had similar after losing her second baby shortly after birth, but I didn't know that at the time. All I knew was that, every single time something went wrong in my life, she compared it to her losing the baby. Didn't matter how inappropriate it was, she still did it.

It was only after having my own children (and sadly, Mum had died by then) that I in any way understood what her trauma must have truly been like - I knew the details (so well) but they'd never really had much impact on me after the first few times it was brought up, until I had my own.

If I'd had half the understanding then that I do now, I would have suggested she have counselling for it - but like your friend, she would probably have scoffed at the idea she needed it.

So sad - but she does need to talk to someone professionally about it, I think, or it will cause her continued upset and affect many of her relationships.

Miaow have you received any treatment for that? I found the birth trauma was poisoning my relationship between me and my DD until I got treatment. It was honestly transformational. I was feeling I was in a constant battle with her, letting her down, being a terrible mum, ruining her life and that she was ruining mine....

After treatment it was like a clenched fist had let go. My feeling were my own again and I could suddenly trust myself and trust her, and we were suddenly on the same team in a way I can't really describe.

God that sounds such hippy horse shit...but honestly I feel it turned my life around.

I agree with PP that are saying you should raise your concerns about PTSD with her. You may risk offending her but it could help her see what an effect this is having on her life. She cant go round constantly getting angry at random people about this experience particularly at events like birthday parties! She needs to have it dealt with properly.
I had a traumatic birth so I am sympathetic to her, but I do think she needs to have some insight into how this issue is making her behave towards people.

Hopefully she does have some insight already and will just apologise and say that she is having it dealt with via counselling.

I really do think it is worth bringing up with her in as polite a way as possible though. It may go on forever with her if no one has a word with her for fear of offending her. And that will be worse for her than it is for other people to live the rest of her life like that.

I think there is something in perfectionism, simply because the more in control of your own life you are, the more power and agency you have, the more high flying and the more perfectionist, the more a traumatic birth will shatter your sense of self in a way that can be incredibly difficult to return from.

Having all the control ripped from you, being treated like a hunk of meat with no opinions, no intelligence, no value other than to produce a baby, (all while experiencing uncontrolled pain and fear and shame) has incredible power to destroy the mental health of high flying professional women. It is an experience that tells us we were wrong to believe we are competent, valuable, intelligent human beings in our own right....and that's a deeply damaging message to internalise.

Miaow it isn't too late to process your birth experience and recover. I wouldn't recommend a birth debrief - mine was shit too - but proper treatment from a specialist in PTSD / post traumatic depression.

Tell her, nicely but firmly. Tell her she needs to talk to a professional about it. Tell her no one's interested. Harsh, I know, but she does need to know and to act on it.

If she continues to ramble drunkenly on the subject, stop inviting her, and if she finds out you're leaving her out, remind her why.

I have a friend with similar issues - had a terrible birth with her DD, and friend's pregnancies seem to be a trigger six years on. She'll always try to avoid talking about it to people who are TTC or pregnant, but if they go on to have an easy birth, she seems to take it quite badly and get almost aggressive sometimes. As she's a truly lovely person otherwise I really think she's genuinely traumatised and just feels frustrated that no-one shares her experience.I've suggested she contact the Birth Trauma Association; maybe you could suggest this to your friend?

I really sympathise with your friend.

I have stopped talking about my traumatic birth as it really is clear that no one gives a shit. I've asked GP about counselling but services in my area are very very limited so they have a very strict criteria.

As someone who suffered with PTSD after a traumatic birth I'd want to gently advise your friend she needs to see her GP. Not just about possible counselling but after two years I was suggested antidepressants for my PTSD. Those little tablets changed my life and my GP explained to me that left untreated, chemical inbalances can easily stay put and affect mental health in all sorts of ways. If she has never sought help I'm not surprised she's still traumatised and suffering. Personally I did not find CBT/counselling helped me.

Op i live with 2 people with severe PTSD its hell for them but i also really feel for you. Its tedious and annoying and often belittling. They cant help it but they do need help. The only thing you can do is ask her to seek help from a councillor and distance yourself if she refuses.

@DailyMaileatmyshit I'm so sorry you haven't had the help you deserve.

It's so infuriating that services are so restricted, women aren't getting the vital aftercare that they need.

I think it's tricky. I had a terrible experience with ds including a psychotic episode, flashbacks to a previous trauma and a NICU stay and whilst trying to process my own feelings, I went through a bit of an Ancient Mariner stage. I got a diagnosis reasonably quickly of PTSD amongst other things relating to the previous trauma and got help but accepting I had a problem was very hard.

I'm a perfectionist and I hate the fact that I didn't give birth (not related specifically to the fact that he was born by emcs but by the fact I was so out of it, I failed to understand I'd had a baby for a quite a while). The lack of control was something I hugely struggled with because I thought I could force my will on it just like everything else in my life. As it turns out, in my case the perfectionism is a very unhealthy coping mechanism picked up from my toxic childhood and previous trauma but it's taken a while to understand that. It is also the opinion of my clinical psychologist that all women who are perfectionists have something in their history which would benefit from talking to someone professionally. I have no idea whether that's backed up by research but of the ones I know, I suspect he is correct.

I second the Birth Trauma Association as being useful, they have a great closed facebook page where people can share their stories without boring, upsetting or annoying everyone else.

induction, 2 day labour then emergency CS

But she had an epidural.

Identical birth to dd1. She has a beautiful dd at the end of it as have I and loads of other women.

In my opinion it is the high flyers who have a pre determined idea of what birth will be like. What is going to happen and when it is going to happen that struggle the most because it is one of the only things that you have no control over

miaow yes - you're right about resources. Its totally shit. I went private and spent £1500 to get my life back. It was very VERY good value for money, but you do indeed have to have the money.

I understand the kids come first attitude, but honestly I only did it to improve my child's life, because I knew I wasn't really emotionally there for her, and I thought she needed that.

Everyone's situation is different and if your symptoms are localized then of course that's easier to manage....but god am I sick of the way women have to 'manage' all the fucking time.