To think Transwomen in female sports has taken a strange new turn?

[bambambini]

www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/01/11/these-transgender-cyclists-have-olympian-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/

As a women who has always played competitive sports, I’ve been following the progress of Transwomen and transgirls in sport. Seems this article shows that some transwomen are now pushing for no limits placed on TW at all. The article shows the disagreement between TW cyclists on the issue.

I guess if we really are to accept that TW are women then this is actually the logical outcome. If TW are women then to put special measures and judgements in place for TW would indeed be prejudiced and discriminatory.

what about those formerly male athletes who were average at best in the male categories? However will they win anything if they can't compete against women or girls?!
yes poor things, they cant be expected to compete with a level playing field now can they

men's greater haemoglobin levels (presumably due to their larger lungs)
larger lungs will give a higher aerobic capacity but the higher hemoglobin levels have (at least in part) to do with exposure to androgens during the period prior to testosterone suppression, the effects of androgens persist for a long time... they have a permanent effect on various tissues, for instance increasing satellite cells in muscles so that muscle growth in response to training will always be greater than had there not been exposure to androgens

@DonkeySkin and @ohfortuna

Don't you come at me with your scientific facts, we all know that if you have a pink ladybrain then that trumps all that biological/medical shizz.

Thanks for that ohfortuna - I wasn't aware of the long-term effects of androgens.

So basically the idea is to encourage transwomen - i.e. men - to play, which will obviously discourage women, but nobody gives a shit about that because men are more important.

Yes. Which shows - yet again - that nobody actually believes they are women.

What an interesting article.

Two dicks discussing whether to ride all over women's sports with male anatomy and testosterone, or just male anatomy.

Decisions, decisions.

I do hope the dicks let the PeopleWithVaginas know how their opportunities will be snatched from them, once they've reached their dickish decision.

#SmashAllTheThings

Hammerman looked at hemoglobin counts and the maximum amount of oxygen an athlete can use in a minute
speaking of which the highest V02 max scores recorded in men are around 96/97, in women 76/77
these are elite endurance level scores, average for healthy but untrained men is 35-40, for women 27-31

I wasn't aware of the long-term effects of androgens
often people arent, but for instance with athletes who have used steroids the advantages will persist for many years after the substances are no longer detectable in the blood stream...things are switched on at an epigenetic level

even thought they are technically clean the athlete who has used steroids (and steroids are all androgens...derivatives of testosterone) has an advantage that he or she wouldnt have without the steroid use.
Trans women are in some ways comparable to women who have used steroids in the past, of course they also have other aspects of male physiology which give further advantages.

Unfortunately society seems to be growing increasingly fearful of the word 'no'. It might offend somebody, and we can't have that

Sadly, I have a sinking feeling the penis privilege will steamroller this completely as well. There will come a point where every woman's team is dominated by willies the world over.

I had my Peak Trans moment this weekend. I genuinely fear for my 10 year old DD with the way things are heading. The world really has gone fucking mad.

Women in sport should refuse to participate if any men wish to compete against them. Just refuse to comply with the whole lunacy of it all.

It wouldn't be wonderful to see a protest but I doubt you could persuade every woman to do that. Herd mentality is how we have arrived at this point. Very few women want to risk being labeled a bigot (understandably) so they comply, go along with it and seethe quietly. Or worse, flag wave and act like it's totally awesome!

while McKinnon believes subjecting trans women to testosterone blocking violates their human rights.

Wow.

What really fucks me off about this is when Oscar Pistorius wanted to run in the olympics, he had to jump through hoops to prove that his blades wouldn't give him any kind of advantage. He even had to have a new special pair made that the IOC finally approved. I found it bazaar at the time that the organisation didn't care about applying those same levels of fairness to the paralympics.

Now it seems they don't give a shit about women's sport either, no concerns at all as to if someone male bodied would have an advantage over born women. They are clearly showing that fairness is only a concern in able bodied men's sports.

You mean your heart doesn't bleed for them, ohfortuna?! 😱

Apparently it's only unfair when it's not a level playing field for women, according to the (mostly male) sporting bodies, by the look of it.

How about a female only event, and an all-comers event? That would solve a lot.

Except that would be unpopular with everyone except actual women athletes

Thank you donkey and ohfortuna for the science and links. We really need to be putting hard facts out there. I am not not feelin well enough collate evidence and links myself at the mo so sorry about that.

My other concern is that much of the new trans science is actually studied/ developed by transwomen and so one really has to question the objectivity of the findings, just as much as if a chemical company funded research into effects of chemicals and, surprise surprise, found no harmful effects.

I agree that most women are just too conditioned to stand aside for the good of others (often men) to see what is going on here - but there are many, many vulnerable women who would benefit from being championed and supported and pushed forward to take part in life or sport, and often much more so though than the transwomen/ TIMs we are seeing who rarely seem to have the empathy or selflessness to return any consideration given to them.

Although the madness has moved up a notch since 2015, I found this article on these 15 transgender athletes fascinating. You have to feel sorry for the East German shot putter whose coaches gave her so many steroids without her knowledge - that's precisely the sort of thing that highlights the concerns of PPs about less scrupulous regimes looking for sporting glory. Interesting that there are a few FTM people here, albeit not exactly at international competing level.

Oh and check out the male privilege foot stamping that got the golf association to back down on the meaning of woman....

www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

Women in sport should refuse to participate if any men wish to compete against them. Just refuse to comply with the whole lunacy of it all.

Tbh - This is what I’d like to see happen. I think Paula Radcliffe did allude to when commentating on TV last year but was understandably wary on being straight to the point about it.

imagine if a heavy weight boxer decided that even though he has the physique of Mike Tyson he feels that his true self his inner self is ronnie corbet sized and so he should be able to fight bantam weights

well I know it's not a direct analogy, there isnt one really is there(?)

it's so unsporting, doesnt every self respecting sports person want a fair competition?
Surely some sports people must feel uncomfortable about this but darent speak up as they will be accused of being prejudiced, transphobic, oppressive trans women and not allowing them to express their true selves etc etc.

Transexuality has become conflated with homosexuality and then shifted so that being trans-phobic (ie questioning their motives) is seen as even worse than being homophobic

autogynephiliacs and other transwomen with nefarious motives are using homosexuality as a trojan horse to sneak in and take the fucking piss

But busyboys, what about those formerly male athletes

They’re still male athletes.

That was my point donny - I was trying to be tongue in cheek

Have to set up 'born women' sports.

I think female covers it.

Actually “women” covers it. TIMs aren’t women.

Not your fault - I've often thought we could do with a sarcasm filter that puts the font in a different text!!