To report a family if they won't actually get help?

[DoinItForTheKids]

This would be the third time of reporting. On the plus side: the kids are well fed, well clothed, well presented, not in obvious poverty, home is clean, school attendance good, no concerns about drugs/substance abuse.

On the negative side: Daily shouting by parents to kids and back again, daily screaming by the kids, shouting and screaming are normal conversations, then swearing at the kids such as "you fcking dickhead" and a new one today "you fcking bitch" - kids are probably 8 and 10. Sadly, I get to hear this every. single. day. Dad is a big lad and I cannot imagine that this isn't intimidating and upsetting for these children, mum isn't any better although I've not heard her swear - call them stupid and stuff yes, but not swear at them.

I have no idea if my previous reports resulted in a visit but guess it might have as both parents hate me (it's not possible for anyone else to have reported it other than me, so I risk of course further nastiness from them if I report again this time).

My concern is that it's worth risking having verbals etc from them IF something will actually be done about it. On the basis of what I've noted here, would they get a visit from a SW? Would they meet criteria for ongoing help? What help would they get based on the kids ages and the high unlikelihood that the SW would ever be able to observe the shouting, swearing and name calling - all they'll see is a nice home, two nice cars, well dressed family, well nourished family?

If in reality they are unlikely to get picked up for help or there is no help out there, there's in effect no point in reporting (although it's the right thing to do). When a SW visits (if they do) they won't get to see/hear any of this stuff that I hear.

Don't know what to do. I mean, I do, but I don't want it to in effect be pointless. Hope that makes sense.

Report. Always Report.

And document. Also worth passing on concerns to school / GP surgery if you know them.

I work in this area, and would advise calling the nspcc, they have a way you can discuss it anonymously over the phone.
They will then be able to get the information t the correct services, and it's all very organised.
Always report, please. Unfounded reports are horrible to deal with, but I would much rather have fifteen pointless and vindictive ones to deal with if that meant one child got some help.
Those poor children, when they are adults, shouldn't have to think and feel that everyone knew what mum and dad were like, why did nobody help me? They must ave heard the screams, swearing or seen the bruises. Why wasn't I worth helping?

Child protection is everyone's business.

Don't know the answer, but you have my sympathy. Good for you though in wanting to do something about it. Not sure what can be done, and as you say the SW will see none of this. Some people are just twats and shouldn't be allowed to breed.

Ring NSPCC. Repeated reports build up a picture. It's possible school and/or other family have made reports too.

Sorry about the verbal backlash. Could you bring police for advice about this?

I know. I will report it - anonymous reporting won't actually help as sadly I'm in a terrace and they are my next door neighbours.

Will the SW question the children without the parents there in order to determine this though??

I think the screaming is indicative of the fact that the communication has always been highly reactive and extreme. So in my house, my kids (from whatever ages they could talk to now when they're 15 and 18) if they want something, they ask, in a normal voice, at a normal volume. I get the impression (and some evidence to back this up) that the kids aren't supervised that much as the reactions from the parents always seem to be them happening on one or the other of the kids doing something that's not allowed or whatever - then all hell breaks loose. But they must be doing stuff the parents don't like nearly all day every day then because these outbursts are repeated several times a day, every day.

I just think they have never known how to communicate without getting instantly irate, annoyed and going immediately to shouting. They don't know how to communicate in a normal way, they certainly don't seem to have any (successful) strategies or approaches in place to handle disputes or unwanted behaviours - it's straight to shouting matches.

The kids (if say arguing with each other) will 'scream' but it's screaming that's attention-seeking. In fact if the parents go and have an initial shout at the kids, their first response is to screech, which the parents then react to, etc, repeat repeat repeat. If they were being looked after by me I'd simply ignore all of that and tell them that I'd love to speak to them, but only if they wanted to talk to me properly - then they'd get my full attention. But then at the end of one of these parental outbursts involving shouting and name calling and swearing, there's screaming again from the kids and I can't believe that it's not containing some distress (I do believe they are distressed at these times).

So so sad

I think all school see is kids who are a bloody nightmare in the classroom (I happen to know someone who worked at their school and she recognised the child (I had not said anything to her at all, I wouldn't) and it was oh god she's a nightmare for the teachers. Well she would be wouldn't she, she's hardly had a model of positive behaviour to follow at home.

Literally no one knows about this daily behaviour other than me and them, and whoever it was reported to before. It's become a daily background noise for me but the swearing and name calling really seems to be going past a point that's ok. It wasn't ok before but it's certainly not ok now either.

If DS grows up to be as big as DD I cannot see that it will stay non-physical going into the future, that just won't happen.

I don't want to sound selfish but I pray she'll get pregnant meaning they have to move as they'd need another bedroom. There are times where it has driven me absolutely stark raving mad and upset me (of course) listening to this relentless style of communication - even on bloody Xmas Day! Christ, if you can't pull it together on high days and holidays, when can you?!

Given your first paragraph, nothing will be done. Families are allowed to scream and shout and swear if they choose, no matter how bad it is.

With Children's services so stretched, on it;s own, it won't be enough for anyone to act, but if there are any other concerns (at school for example) it will help build a picture.

Is it isolated shouting or ongoing? As you could call the police who would then witness it if it were going on for a period of time.
Social workers would talk to the children alone but it depends if the children feel able to say about it. I think you should report though as you don’t know if there are already social workers involved etc and if that might help build a picture

I doubt ss will do much about this if anything.

Also no I really hope they dont bring another baby into the mix.

If its just swearing and shouting, then I doubt anything will be done. Nothing mandatory anyway, parents might be invited to a parenting class.

Could you record them, or film them? Or is that not allowed for some reason? I'm never sure if stuff like this is legal

I say always report, better one fasle report than missing a true one.

However, it's worth remembering, that when children grow up in this environment, it becomes the norm. So an adult shouting is normal to them. Using swear words is normal to them. Being called names is normal to them. Doesn't make it right, but it 'normalises' the behaviour to them.

Whilst it’s sad shouting and swearing alone won’t be enough. They’re not neglected physically or hit from what you’ve said. What do you expect to happen? The most they’ll get is a parenting course.

Yes, a parenting course is what they need! They need Supernanny - that's kind of what they need. Practical advice in the situation, following observation in the home.

Unless you're living next to it every day, hearing it constantly, you can't imagine what it's like. Not only just the basic disturbance aspect which is absolutely unrelentingly disruptive, but sometimes after an outburst and the thundering up the stairs and clearly serious anger and rage from the parents, followed by the silence, I cannot help but wonder are they then confined to their rooms or are they hit or shoved? I can't know, I can't see into the house.

It is sad that shouting and swearing might not be enough. It's abusive without any question, and damaging. I can't imagine that for any member of the family that day to day life is in any way enjoyable.

Your first paragraph reads just as the case recording would read following a home visit where the case is closed with a no further action required other than perhaps a letter advising the family to get back in touch if they need some support.

It is usually only following intervention, often voluntary, doesn’t need to be forced, that the children are spoken to alone.

All reports help build a picture though and your call could be the one that matters. NSPCC could advise you.

I'd love to know where all this proverbial help and support is. Many councils have had massive funding cuts and more responsibilities heaped on them by the government at Westminster. Plenty of us have been asking for help with disabled children and/or children with mental health issues and it's nowhere to be found, so doubt much will be done about a sweary family.

'Yes, a parenting course is what they need! They need Supernanny - that's kind of what they need. Practical advice in the situation, following observation in the home. '

Well, good look with sourcing that for them.

Wow.

I've got to say, I'm stunned at the arsey responses on here from some. What 'do I expect should happen', 'good luck with sourcing that for them'.

Fucking. hell.

Yes, indeed, you are more than likely 100% right and no one gives a SHIT about these kids whatsoever, and the system is so overloaded that only the very worst cases get a proper referral or end up on a child protection order.

That doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean that abuse isn't happening. And it doesn't mean that you sit on your arse and do nothing.

Honestly, utterly shameful, abhorrent, care-less attitudes that absolutely take my breath away.

For those of you who are that pissed off and clearly feel there's NO point reporting anything other than outright high level abuse and neglect because the services don't exist, presumably you are out there routinely campaigning to get this inequity addressed, off your own bat?

Well, then, report away . It's not about not giving a shit, it's about living on Planet Reality. They won't get help or state-provided Supernannies because those aren't available. Plenty of families with children with SEN and/or severe mental health issues are left with nothing, so there's hardly going to be all this help out there for sweary families.

'For those of you who are that pissed off and clearly feel there's NO point reporting anything other than outright high level abuse and neglect because the services don't exist, presumably you are out there routinely campaigning to get this inequity addressed, off your own bat?'

Well, yes, come and join us on the SEN boards before pointing fingers and trying to shame random people on the net who point out reality to you.

In the which case expat, you're angry at the wrong person. I am not shaming anyone and you aren't pointing out anything I don't already know, and which I've already stated I already know, and which is why I posted to try and determine whether these children would qualify for help and whether help would be available or not. Clearly there are people with all kinds of issues who don't get the help they need and it's totally wrong - but it doesn't mean you do nothing with regard to situations where there's a problem! I don't want to report if it's 99% that nothing will happen - it's pointless to do so, hence asking. But it still concerns me and I still think they need help. It's not MY fault if the help isn't available, is sporadic, patchy or whatever else. Clearly you've not got the help you require with regard to SN and my heart goes out to you as it does to everyone else in similar situations - like parents who's teens with MH issues get posted to a (shit) acute mental health unit 300 miles away, like that's gonna help. We still have to act on an individual level, regardless of what help is available, when we see something that's wrong, surely?

TBF if the family are deemed to need it there are state funded super nannies available. Yes only for the most vulnerable children where there is risk and neglect but these families only come to light through reporting.