To report a family if they won't actually get help?

[DoinItForTheKids]

This would be the third time of reporting. On the plus side: the kids are well fed, well clothed, well presented, not in obvious poverty, home is clean, school attendance good, no concerns about drugs/substance abuse.

On the negative side: Daily shouting by parents to kids and back again, daily screaming by the kids, shouting and screaming are normal conversations, then swearing at the kids such as "you fcking dickhead" and a new one today "you fcking bitch" - kids are probably 8 and 10. Sadly, I get to hear this every. single. day. Dad is a big lad and I cannot imagine that this isn't intimidating and upsetting for these children, mum isn't any better although I've not heard her swear - call them stupid and stuff yes, but not swear at them.

I have no idea if my previous reports resulted in a visit but guess it might have as both parents hate me (it's not possible for anyone else to have reported it other than me, so I risk of course further nastiness from them if I report again this time).

My concern is that it's worth risking having verbals etc from them IF something will actually be done about it. On the basis of what I've noted here, would they get a visit from a SW? Would they meet criteria for ongoing help? What help would they get based on the kids ages and the high unlikelihood that the SW would ever be able to observe the shouting, swearing and name calling - all they'll see is a nice home, two nice cars, well dressed family, well nourished family?

If in reality they are unlikely to get picked up for help or there is no help out there, there's in effect no point in reporting (although it's the right thing to do). When a SW visits (if they do) they won't get to see/hear any of this stuff that I hear.

Don't know what to do. I mean, I do, but I don't want it to in effect be pointless. Hope that makes sense.

I'm not angry at anyone, Doing, you the one who started this thread and then attempted to shame up those who pointed out that little is likely to happen but to report anyway.

Sadly it is true that there is no help.
Even if families are begging for help for their child and themselves.
I know from my own experience that there is no help.

Even if she gets pregnant she won’t suddenly be rehoused unless she’s a private tenant and rehouses herself. Families are overcrowded everywhere. Another child doesn’t mean they get a bigger place. Too many people waiting.

Op yanbu. I found myself in a situation recently where I witnessed a father verbally abusing his 11/12 yr old son in a public place. Not just a telling off but a foul mouthed menacing outburst that left onlookers shocked. I felt so upset and frightened at what this child may be facing at home I reported it to the police on the non emergency line. They took it very seriously. Why wouldn't they? It's abuse.

Everything you've said in your Op is conjecture, school will have the full picture and be making reports if necessary. Already you are gossiping with school employees about the children. You may not like the language, or the physical stature of the father within the family, but nothing has indicated they are not having their physical and emotional needs met. Clean, healthy, well fed, loved. What exactly are you reporting? The F-bomb? Half the posters in this forum cant string a sentence together without shoving F or C in the title.

Even if she gets pregnant she won’t suddenly be rehoused unless she’s a private tenant and rehouses herself. Families are overcrowded everywhere. Another child doesn’t mean they get a bigger place. Too many people waiting.

Depends where in the country you are and what local demand is like for the type/size of property you need, a friend has just been rehoused after only a month on the housing list at Band 2 priority (Band 4 is lowest, Band 1 and Homeless Band are highest).

Sadly it is true that there is no help.
Even if families are begging for help for their child and themselves.

Yup. Have a read of the SEN and schools boards where families are having to fight for every little thing because the funding for children's services has been cut to the bones. And not just SEN but children's centres, schools, outreach programmes, activity clubs, health, and so on. Resources are now targeted at those in absolutely desperate need and those who are sinking but not yet sunk get nothing.

To offer another view, SS may have already made contact and decided there was nothing to act upon. My DS has SEN and will shout/scream/swear and then go suddenly silent because we've wrapped him in his weighted blanket and are bear-hugging him because pressure calms him. Sometimes I shout/scream/swear because I've had a shoe/toy/fork flung at me and it's hit me or its been a near miss. Sometimes I reach the end of my tether I shout too, I'm only human. So perhaps SS have contacted them but found that while there was some lessthan ideal shouting going on, it didn't hit any trigger points for intervention.

I'm not sure what you're reporting for. It may sound a bit blank but I can't see anything the SS are going to react on.

My experience of ss with a child with SN must be diffident because I was reported maliciously and ss decided it was malicious aswell (very clear lies that could be proved) yet still wanted to do a "team around child" purely because I have a child with a disability. I was also recently reported to ss by the school again ss decided it wasn't an ss matter and closed the case yet still said they will be referring me for "early help." so my experience is different from those on here so the op may find ss do have the resources.

I would say report. Calling a child "you fcking dickhead" and "you fcking bitch" is not just dropping the f-bomb when angry, but targeted emotional abuse. Going forward I would log each incident so you could show whoever you report to how often and what is being said so they can see it's not a one-off f-bomb frustration.

As to whether anything will happen, I do not know, but you will have done what morally you think is the most you can do to help those kids.

It's possibly ss could offer "early help". I was reported by the school for ALOT less than this.

Plenty of families with children with SEN and/or severe mental health issues are left with nothing, so there's hardly going to be all this help out there for sweary families.

Agree with this. A sweary, loud family isn't going to be a priority.

I think you're right that nothing is going to happen as a result of your reports (so not sure why you're getting so arsey with people agreeing with that??) but I would keep reporting anyway. At least you know you've done what little you can for these children, and there is a slim possibility that action will be taken.

newyearnewme
You need to read how I worded my interaction with someone who once worked at the school. If anyone 'gossiped' about that child's behavior at school, it was this other woman, not myself. I didn't respond or further the conversation - the delivered this to me, unbidden, as she saw the kids and recognised one of them.

"Everything you've said in your Op is conjecture". Everything? It cannot possibly be conjecture when I can hear it on a daily basis! "School will have the full picture" - er, actually, they won't - schools often don't. I imagine they don't possibly have the best behaviour in school as many kids don't. They would find it difficult to jump to a conclusion of 'they must be getting abused' just on the basis of that.

"Nothing has indicated they are not having their physical and emotional needs met" - WHAT?!!

Crosskeys thank you for your rounded and well thought out response. I get what you're saying about the odd shout or the odd swear - jeez, we've all done it! [Oh here, we go, they're off again!] But this is all the time, all. the. time. It literally never ends. There are several incidents a day. I work from home some days so I'm in my living room from about 8am to 9pm counting relaxing time in the evening as well. It's at breakfast time, tea time, bed time, then at weekends at any time, high days and holidays.

I agree shawshank - it's morally right to report but (and absolutely why I posted to find out the likelihood of anything happening) highly unlikely that there is help. What's available in one region isn't in another and so on.

FWIW the way families are taken to the brink, or beyond, with regards to MH & SN is absolutely unacceptable and I do not in any way support it, not am I divvy enough to not know that it goes on. We treat human beings in this country deplorably a lot of the time, especially the vulnerable. So if a chance is there to improve something for someone vulnerable, children included, I do still think individuals have a responsibility to try.

These people, and me, own our houses so they would be able in theory to move if they needed to. I'm sure anyone reading this will understand that after 6 years of hearing this day to day [they're still going on this current ding-dong and I've been typing for 5 minutes on and off] is really really intolerable. And I'm not on the receiving end of it. I wish they would move - to a detached home in the country - there they can get on with abusing their children verbally on a daily basis without disturbing and upsetting people around them who find it really unpleasant and worry for those children - and SS can continue to not be involved and god help the poor daughter's future boyfriends/husband/children and god help the poor son's future girlfriends/wife/children - both these children already communicate only in anger and shouting (not conjecture, I hear it all the time); goodness knows what lives the other people in their lives will have when they are adults. And so the cycle continues.

I'm not sure why everyone's bring SEN into this, other than to highlight lack of resources. OP is talking about two parents who are bullying and verbally abusing their DC. I don't have any advice OP but I really feel for you. My parents live below such a family and it causes my mum no end of stress and anxiety listening to it day in day out. The mother constantly insults and swears at her DD's, she's nothing but a vile bully. It's every day as soon as they get in from school and continues into the evening. My dad's gone to their door a few times and it calms down for a few days then back to screaming and shouting. It is abuse and it's a fucking sin there's no help for these kids. If you decide to contact SS I'd maybe try and record it so they can hear how bad it is.

So what do you WANT social services to do?

I deal with incidents reported to SS daily - believe me, this is absolutely nothing. Well, your last post has intimated that you're inconvenienced by the family, but that's about it.

I wish they would move - to a detached home in the country - there they can get on with abusing their children verbally on a daily basis without disturbing and upsetting people around them who find it really unpleasant and worry for those children

Is it the noise that you're most worried about, given you work from home and just want them to move as you've said above? Make sure you're doing this for the right reasons, OP. The worry appears to be secondary to the noise. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I'm not 'being arsey' with people stating that services are hugely depleted, but when I've already said 'I imagine that not much will happen' and my post is about 'will anything happen' it's a big clue that I share that thinking to a large extent?

What I don't share is the conclusion that that means it's not worth bothering to report - which appeared to be implied in some of those posts. We are encouraged/told to report - if you're not sure, report. Yet clearly on here because of the knowledge of the difficulties around providing services, many people would not report. That's very very worrying indeed (I'm just talking in general).

I have not gone one malicious or vindictive agenda item here, at all. It's these CHILDREN I worry about for their current home life and the difficulties for their future. A bit of swearing in a rough and ready family is one thing, a sustained 'campaign' of shouting at, swearing at from adults to children is not ok by any standard. [The current ding-dong? Still rumbling along].

Well, your last post has intimated that you're inconvenienced by the family, but that's about it.
That's more or less what I'm getting too. She wants them to move away most of all! She's reported them more than once already.

newyear
What I want is pretty much irrelevant isn't it because what they need is someone to come in and help them learn non-aggressive ways of communicating - which is highly unlikely to happen! I too have worked in Children's Services and understand the scale of abuse and neglect that occurs and where this sits in that scale (which is right at the bottom). It's only at the bottom though due to lack of resourcing. When you go through Child Protection training all the levels of abuse are considered abuse and considered - and taught- as worthy of reporting. They don't give you a sliding scale of 'oh well, this is just verbal abuse so you can ignore that'.

Inconvenienced by it? Ummm. More like, distraught at times when it's my third day quietly in my house and these ding-dongs have been repeated 2, 3, sometimes 4 times a day for three days straight. That's not pleasant, you can't even quietly enjoy your home (sadly, and whether it sounds selfish or not, it is a fact) because you can hear this going on all the time, and you know how unpleasant it must be for the kids concerned.

jassy
No i mentioned working from home to show that when I am there all day (no more than once a week usually) I get to hear a complete full day's worth from before school to bedtime and therefore I get to witness (by hearing) the number of times it happens. You'll imagine that having reported twice already, my belief that anything will happen is pretty low - so them moving is about one of the only solutions left!! And also highly unlikely to happen!

nomore thank you for your reply. I imagine your DMum could report the family she hears to SS - and nothing would be done. And if she'd done that twice and 6 yrs later (not wishing or intending to put words into her mouth!) but I wouldn't be surprised if she too would be pleased if that family moved somewhere else.

I've reported twice jassy because the children are being emotionally abused and I wanted things to improve for them on that front. To read the description of what's happening and conclude it's only due to inconveniences I experience is barmy. Still, I guess it shows that abuse has many victims because I absolutely hate hearing it, it's horrible, really horrible to hear day after day after day for 6 years - would you like it?

Report.

There are some ridiculous posts on this thread. I would hate to listen to this OP and hear children being shouted it/verbally abused like that. It obviously isn't conjecture because you can hear it. You know from your past experiences that these concerns on their own will be nowhere near the threshold for intervention. I would keep a log for a month and take it to the safeguarding lead at the children's school(s). If there are any concerns at school, your information would add to the picture. I might also consider notifying the children's GP. They wouldn't discuss it with you, but they may keep it in mind.

Good ideas there kitty. I have wondered if recording would be something to do although it kind of felt a bit wrong, but then it would be evidence (and yes you're right, nowhere near conjecture at all!).

It’s always worth reporting, but sadly I think @expat is bang on; most likely nothing will be done about it as there aren’t the resources . You never know though. Keep reporting! Good for you for doing so.

bastardkitty's suggestion of visiting their GP and school is entering stalker territory You should report your information through the usual channels if you have a genuine concern.