To report a family if they won't actually get help?

[DoinItForTheKids]

This would be the third time of reporting. On the plus side: the kids are well fed, well clothed, well presented, not in obvious poverty, home is clean, school attendance good, no concerns about drugs/substance abuse.

On the negative side: Daily shouting by parents to kids and back again, daily screaming by the kids, shouting and screaming are normal conversations, then swearing at the kids such as "you fcking dickhead" and a new one today "you fcking bitch" - kids are probably 8 and 10. Sadly, I get to hear this every. single. day. Dad is a big lad and I cannot imagine that this isn't intimidating and upsetting for these children, mum isn't any better although I've not heard her swear - call them stupid and stuff yes, but not swear at them.

I have no idea if my previous reports resulted in a visit but guess it might have as both parents hate me (it's not possible for anyone else to have reported it other than me, so I risk of course further nastiness from them if I report again this time).

My concern is that it's worth risking having verbals etc from them IF something will actually be done about it. On the basis of what I've noted here, would they get a visit from a SW? Would they meet criteria for ongoing help? What help would they get based on the kids ages and the high unlikelihood that the SW would ever be able to observe the shouting, swearing and name calling - all they'll see is a nice home, two nice cars, well dressed family, well nourished family?

If in reality they are unlikely to get picked up for help or there is no help out there, there's in effect no point in reporting (although it's the right thing to do). When a SW visits (if they do) they won't get to see/hear any of this stuff that I hear.

Don't know what to do. I mean, I do, but I don't want it to in effect be pointless. Hope that makes sense.

I would never approach a school or GP! I was responding to the idea of recording - which I'm very unsure about tbh but as kitty says it is the only way to gather evidence to support reporting. I would report thru NSPCC only. No one can assume that school or GP have any concerns at all or have necessarily seen anything that concerns them - it could literally only be me^ that sees this side to these kids lives (hears that should be).

Any concern, report.

If there's no wrongdoing then there's no harm done.

If there's something going on, you've saved a child's life.

Interesting. Our neighbours' child is 4 (they told me; when I called round to complain about shouting over the fence, he arrived at the front door wearing only nappy and with dummy). We (sadly) call him Fuck You Fred (not real name). In the garden all we hear is "FUCK YOU FRED" and "FUCK OFF FRED" over and over again, unless they have visitors when they reign it in big time.

Fred never got to pre-school etc., rather spending his time in the garden repeating FUCK FUCK FUCK for hours on end. Particular highlight was when he was sat in the garden shouting "FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!" - annoyed as he could hear us in the garden - and mum proudly said "For fucks sake INDEED Freddy; for fucks sake indeed". You could literally hear the deep satisfaction in her voice.

TVs in all rooms (we can see) on 24/7, maybe they teach Fred words other than "fuck". What can we do, what should we do?

I know ivenoidea thank you - there's not a question about 'wrongdoing' though is there, I hear the verbal abuse, name calling and swearing and shouting every day so the fact it's happening isn't the thing that's in question. I don't feel lives are at risk (thank goodness). Still abusive though.

I think, sadly, that reporting this is unlikely to result in any change for those children. I am not saying that I wouldn't do it - if nothing else, in order to feel like I was doing something. But this kind of poor/aggressive/knows-no-better/highly stressed parenting is small fry. These children will undoubtedly be affected by it, it's upsetting to hear it but I suspect nothing would be done.

However, I don't think being scared of any comeback to you should stop you. Adults have choices; children don't

OK, the swearing is awful, but reporting for shouting? Blimey, that's a whole lot of parents out there who shout too much that you'd no doubt want them seeing to as well.

Oh dear Staples! At least these 'fucks' seem to come from a fairly friendly basis, however inappropriate!! My next door neighbours there's a lot of rage going on. It must come across as a bit threatening to the children - is it like that with this little boy or does it not seem quite like that?

NewYear

The children's emotional needs are not being met. I disagree with you there

I don't think SS have the means to help children whose emotional needs aren't being met. Only the ones who are being beaten

Would it also be worth reporting to environmental health too? I wonder if just a visit from them might make the parents consider what they're doing.
That said a whispered "you fucking bitch" is as bad as a shouted one :(

Goodness sakes dreamy, it's a campaign of ongoing shouting, threat and abusive comments, by adults, to children, not 'a bit of shouting'! That point has already been expanded on and responded to.

I acknowledge that every family's different. But sometimes behaviour crosses into abusive and even if the intention of these parents isn't to abuse for kicks, this behaviour will be causing emotional damage to these children.

Yes, absolutely stealth re the comments that I don't hear - tell me about it! It's bad enough hearing the ones that are shouted - who knows how many more there are - I don't, that would conjecture wouldn't it. I can only talk about the things that I do hear.

What I'm trying to get across (because sadly I can hear pretty much every single word) is that it's every day, it's very combative. You can hear the dad come flying down the stairs and then he's shouting shouting shouting at one or other of the children, swearing at them, they're screaming back and/or shouting "Ow, ow, ow". If anyone thinks this is normal run of the mill family stuff they need to reassess normal (and their understanding of what constitutes abuse).

What SS would or wouldn't do is somewhat of a side issue - it IS abuse whether intended or not. It SHOULD be dealt with - top performing children's departments have turned their approaches around by concentrating on prevention and early intervention ie not trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted, but getting in early and nipping things in the bud. Just think if this continues (which it likely will, possibly escalating to include (if it doesn't already) physical chastisement) how many problems might stem from this in these kids future adult relationships, in their kids, in their own lives, in possibly getting into trouble with the police and seeing the inside of a court room.

Multiple key systems in this country are on their knees and whilst they are badged as 'child protection' (and we protect by preventing harm in the first place) do little of that because 'protection' is only applied after the damage is done, and is only applied when so MUCH damage has been done that the children are well and truly buggered for the rest of their lives. We don't put paedophiles away typically for first offences - they haven't done 'enough' harm so we let them out again and only give custodial sentences when they have done enough harm.

It's wrong. We're trying to get away from cases like Saville by encouraging reporting and yet here on a thread because of the known unlikeliness of anything being done in this case, a large proportion of posters think no report should be made (which flies in the face of all current NSPCC advertising).

As I write, once again, yet another delightful totally negative verbal interaction is taking place, this time with the mum. It's barely been an hour since the last one. That's every day for these children - constantly berated. I've never heard them shouting "f*cking brilliant Johnny, well done"! EVERY comment and interaction is negative and critical and said with anger.

We have two children who we adopted from the local area. They were removed from their BM, in the main for emotional abuse and neglect.

SS/NSPCA do take emotional neglect very seriously now a days. This type of thing can have a major effect on any child growing up. It can have an enormous affect on their ability to control their own emotions in the playground for instance. It can have a very detrimental affect on how they treat others themselves. I remember plenty of threads on here where OPs tell us about the emotional abuse they are receiving from their partners. Who on these threads says - sorry nothing can be done if it's not physical abuse?
Remember these are children they are forced to take this day in day out. They can't just walk out.

It's definitely fair to note that if this was a woman starting a thread about a bloke who constantly shouted at her called her a f*cking bitch, everyone would tell her to LTB.

If that woman had children she'd be very strongly urged to 'LTB for the sake of the children, don't you know what it's doing to them?'!

Calling kids names is emotional abuse so I would report. Sounds like a parenting programme would help everyone communicate better. Like Triple P - the Positive Parenting Programme if they offer it in your area?

I think the situation you describe does warrant a report OP, but I don't think my neighbours do. Something is not quite as it should be but not enough evidence, and I am sure he does go to school now so hoping they will pick it up.

I can see expat's point and share the frustration of parents with children with SEN who are begging for support and not getting it. The system is broken.

I would still report though, there's an outside chance that your complaint will reach the ears of somebody who particularly cares about emotional abuse, or maybe even the shock of being reported/visited by SS will make these cowardly bastards think twice about bellowing profanities at their children.

I would start recording it on our phone when the shouting begins. Then they can't downplay it and if shouting and swearing is clearly audible from your house it will show how bad it is. I'm pretty sure there can't be any laws against recording inside your own home.

Also you might have got different responses if you'd have included about the children shouting 'ow, ow, ow' in your opening post as that sounds like more than verbal abuse.

Definitely emotional harm, OP. Keep reporting, that's all you can do. At least you're doing something, trying to help those kids.

Emotional Harm is barely recognised even now. I have something similar going on. I was also treated to verbal emotional abuse by a person who does the same to DCs of the family. I reduced my contact and my DCs contact. Other DCs are still on the receiving end.
I am an adult and well aware of my abilities in work areas and generally in life to but I was devastated and reduced to a wreck by the verbal emotional abuse. A child does not have any experience of life. This is an area of abuse which must be taken much more seriously. It saps all confidence.

My neighbours are similar. They scream and swear at each other and the kids all day.
I haven’t reported as I assumed nothing would happen and it was pointless. This is based on me and a friend reporting another family we knew a few years ago where there was serious neglect (never cleaning teeth or changing nappies so kids in pain, filthy home, giving kids alcohol, screaming and swearing at kids and awful punishments, drug use at home, very inappropriate discussions in front of kid etc) and absolutely nothing being done.
I feel sad for the kids next door. But Is it worth reporting? I don’t suspect any physical abuse but of course don’t know.

So you keep reporting them for just arguing and clearly they think it's fine but you're going to keep doing it anyway? You know they could get you done for harassment right?

It's not just arguing. Can you read?

Unless you're living next to it every day, hearing it constantly, you can't imagine what it's like.

I lived next to it every day for almost a year. Her DS was going through puberty and my you could have heard the screaming matches from space! The worst one I remember is one about 2am where the mum was desperately trying to calm him down and he was having none of it. You dont hear a peep out of her DS these days.

Sorry but pps are right. Report by all means but I cant see SS acting on this information alone. If SS was to attend every 'kids and parents constantly scream at each other concern' they'd be even more busier than they are now.

In reference to your question about SW interviewing the children separately then yes they would.

The only reason I like winter is that the kids and adults from next door seem to stay inside with the windows closed.

In the Autumn I did get a little laugh when the dad sold his son 'You need to learn some fucking respect!' I'm not sure what he did, but at the age of 5 he was probably coping someone in that house.

I've been tempted to go over there to have a word as they all seem to live with their elderly Grandma in what was a niace cul-de-sac. But if they talk like that to small children I wonder what they're going to say to an adult!

But yes, they should be getting parenting lessons but surely everyone knows to not scream and swear at children?! Just wonder what they're going to be like as teenagers.