... to feel disgusted at fox-chasing toff-twits!

[counterpoint]

On my way to a local town for lunch today, we had to slow down and stop as a horse came galloping up towards us in the middle of the road. On his back sat a dandified twit who was looking for his hounds. In the nearby field some 100 (I kid you not) other starched twits sat on brainwashed horses with hungry hounds running amok. Traffic swayed and stopped as these twits had clearly lost the little sense they had and were dispersing all over the highway, horses looking dazed at being led among cars at great speed on slippery tarmac. Hounds confusedly sniffing all over the road and verges. How much had these twit-toffs drunk? It was not yet noon!

My friends in our car tried to calm me down saying it must be a drag when all of a sudden a poor defenseless fox jumped on the dry-stone wall looking wild-eyed as it tried to determine whether he was safer making a run for it across a busy road or turn back into a field of crazed, uncontrolled hounds and drunken (British?) twits. The fox froze and the driver of my car sped on as I screamed with panic for the predictable fate of the fox.

Why the f*ck is a supposedly civilized country allowing this kind of savagery to continue?

Thank you Toft

I thought lamping was also illegal? As I've said I personally have no issue with protecting your animals. I have issues with poisoning because of the wider potential for damage, but I don't have a problem with ratting dogs on farms - they're bloody fast & dispatch of rats ridiculously quickly.

“am not about to engage in debate with people who call those who hold an opposing view inbred, toffs, twats, cunts, evil, deranged, sick yadda yadda.”

So you are going to answer my questions?

Would it be possible for the hunt supporters on this thread to come back and explain:

a) why they seem to want to insist that everybody against fox hunting must be a townie when it is clear from this thread, and from statistics elsewhere, that this is not the case?

b) why they seem to be skirting the question of why something illegal (hunting a live animal with hounds) suddenly becomes acceptable if embraced by real country people- would they feel the same about an illegal pursuit that happened to be popular among the inhabitants of e.g. poorer urban areas?

c) why, again, they seem to be unwilling to address the question of trespassing and damage to property? it seems clear this is happening-so why is it not a problem?

d) why the (possibly nefarious) acts of some hunt saboteurs are relevant to meeting the above concerns raised by non-hunt-saboteurs?

But without some groups of sabs there would probably still be this 'we only hunt legally' charade without the evidence that shows it is bull

This isn't right. Do you mean hunt monitors? People who video and track the hunt, unmasked? They are the ones who make sure the hunt stays within the law and are non confrontational.

Sabs are deliberately inflammatory and often violent

I'm off to work but will pick up this up later to see if any valid arguments have been submitted in favour of hunting.

Oh do pipe down and bang on about something relevant, dull. You're living right up to your username (and also being hugely hypocritical by chucking out insults about me being "stupid" and "cretinous" and an "idiot" whilst whining about insults!).

Now toff's last post is v interesting - because most of that makes perfect sense to me. The reason that I haven't eaten meat myself (apart from a duck spring roll that i was assured was veggie and then couldn't spit out because I was at a seminar with my new boss and a very senior judge ) for over 30 years is because I don't approve of the way animals are treated for meat. But I see absolutely nothing wrong with people hunting for what they need, provided they take it and no more, and provided they don't get off on the pleasure of the kill like the morons you see in the news or on Facebook who post pics of themselves with "trophy" kills.

The problem I have with fox hunting as opposed to shooting a wild duck or deer is that you can't eat a fox; that it's unnecessarily prolonged and savage; and that people actively ENJOY it. That's the sick part to me!

True indeed must - I don't poison anymore as my dogs do the job!

It's am emotive subject and I do think it's hard for either side to understand the other.

For people like me we accept hunting - not because we are inbred, evil or thick but because farms, horses, dogs and wildlife is our life and part of that is hunting , fishing etc.
I guess we are just more rooted in the tradition aswell as animals being companions, meat, workers, pests - I don't know . I'm just thinking aloud.

Hunting is an extreme sport which is why people like doing it. I have hunted in the past as a child. It is thrilling galloping across the countryside jumping hedges. I never once saw a fox be killed. However, the hunt near us is particularly arrogant which has totally put me off, and as I get older I like it less and less.

Rebecca - we don't enjoy the kill. I don't enjoy picking up dead carcasses most days on my fields. I don't enjoy ratting. I don't enjoy watching my horses shot when they are too ill to carry on. I don't enjoy pulling chickens necks.

But I know and accept that animals hunt and are hunted and populations need checking and that if I keep animals, I have a responsibility to them and those around them.

People who hunt don't enjoy the fox being killed (which rarely happens) , they enjoy the ride. That's why drag hunting is so popular. Farmers near us want a job done though, they wouldn't let people ride round their fields if they weren't getting anything out of it!

Most farmers want the hunt to draw their land - we do.

"Here's a plan,, think of a better argument."

Ah, somebody is going to answer my questions!

Blemn there are several groups of sabs I follow who are not masked when they follow hunts. They also wear bodycams to protect themselves from claims of wrongdoing. Again, not saying all do, I don't follow them all. But saying all sabs go out masked etc is misleading. I refuse to follow any group who causes injury to hounds or horses. That is not acceptable in my eyes.

Toft the tradition idea is one that I hear a lot. I'm originally from 'the country' & i grew up watching people shoot for example...but they ate what they shot. My experience of hunting - and to my eternal shame I have attended hunts, two of them as part of the hunt - is that it is not for pest control but for ego kicks.

I hope I have a bit cory?

“We lamp, shoot, hunt, fish”

You lamp?

why they seem to want to insist that everybody against fox hunting must be a townie when it is clear from this thread, and from statistics elsewhere, that this is not the case?
They don't!

b) why they seem to be skirting the question of why something illegal (hunting a live animal with hounds) suddenly becomes acceptable if embraced by real country people- would they feel the same about an illegal pursuit that happened to be popular among the inhabitants of e.g. poorer urban areas?
Hunting is not illegal

c) why, again, they seem to be unwilling to address the question of trespassing and damage to property? it seems clear this is happening-so why is it not a problem?
This is a problem and reparation is always made. It doesn't happen very often.

d) why the (possibly nefarious) acts of some hunt saboteurs are relevant to meeting the above concerns raised by non-hunt-saboteurs?
Because I put human lives above foxes lives.

I do think different hunts operate differently and have different members to be fair, made.

So if the thrill is in the ride - which I can fully understand - why not leave the hounds at home? The dynamic of the ride changes the instant you add a pack of baying hounds into the mix

I didn't say all sabs were masked.

"So if the thrill is in the ride - which I can fully understand - why not leave the hounds at home? The dynamic of the ride changes the instant you add a pack of baying hounds into the mix"

Not sure I'm the best person to answer that as I was never up front with the hounds! Always tottling along towards the back.

BertrandRussell - I will try to answer your question as to why -

Foxhunting has its roots in the landed gentry and the aristos but is now open to all.

It was born out of a need to control the fox population many hundreds of years ago. The history of the foxhound is interesting and extensive but essentially a foxhound cannot outrun or catch a fit, healthy fox in flight, fact. The concept was to hunt and dispatch weak, injured and old foxes to maintain a healthy breeding fox population. Foxhunting traditionally has a season which runs from autumn through to Spring, again this is to protect the species during their breeding season.

My issue is that the “more humane” snaring and rifling of foxes doesn’t take their breeding season into consideration, in fact it is seen as a triumph to shoot a sucked vixen with cubs at foot and I abhor that. Likewise shooting a fox doesn’t pick off the weak and old of the species, in fact if you are shooting out lamping which many are, you are likely to be shooting a healthy fox hunting for his family food. Lamping also attracts trespass onto farmland which, as a farmers wife, I will not support.

I go out hunting firstly because I enjoy watching hounds work on a scent - it’s really interesting to watch and hear if you haven’t - it’s just as magical on an artificial scebt, when they speak and work together up a line. I also go out hunting because I have some fantastic horses and I enjoy riding them across county I’m not usually privileged enough to ride on, jump hedges I can’t usually jump.

I’ve hunted for thirty years and pre ban I only ever saw one kill. It really isn’t a group of bloody hungry inbreeds charging the countryside at all. I’ve tried to explain as best I can why I hunt and what it’s about for me, and I’ll answer any questions anyone has.

It is necessary to control the fox population in the UK because they are a growing population with no predators - we (man) irradiated the lynx, bear and wolf from this country which will have otherwise controlled the population. Without some balance the food chain is altered which in a densely populated island has magnified consequences.

because you need the hounds to pick up a scent to keep the ride unpredictable and thrilling, i think. I can see that part of it, having done some cross country riding myself. It's the not giving a fuck about the consequences for an animal or the public in the case of a fair few examples that I can't really get on board with! "Horse and hound" is an interesting read on the topic because the posters on the website often talk about specific hunts and areas and practices. Definitely not all created equal!

It would be great to get a few mates together and go for a crazy ride through the countryside. But I am sure you will understand that farmers don't want a bunch of people on horses riding through their land without the support of the hunt. If hunt members cause damage to fences and gates they will repair it. If the hunt damages anything they will pay for it. The farmers allow this (in the main) because the hunt provide a service.

Killing foxes is not illegal. Hunting is not illegal.

Killing for pleasure screams "medieval/dark ages" to me. And the country aspect conjures Royston Vasey. Hopefully people will evolve, however gradually.

Lamping rabbits is completely legal.

No idea why you think it isn't?

I have horses. Occasionally, we need to get rid of the rabbits that make burrows in their fields because if we don't, the horses can step into them and cause themselves serious and fatal leg injuries.

So rabbits are shot at night by lamplight. The quickest, easiest and kindest way. Or would you all prefer we gallop after them in broad daylight with hounds?