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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to tell women to get married before they have babies

424 replies

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 · 12/01/2018 12:39

This forum is absolutely full up of the following stories, repeated on a loop

Woman falls in love with selfish twunt (doesn't realise at this stage he is a selfish twunt)
Woman is persuaded to move into the home selfish twunt owns, or is persuaded to by a house but only in selfish twunts name because (insert excuse here)
Woman suffers "contraceptive failure"
Woman gives up her job to look after children.
Twunt has got her exactly where he wants her - now he can fuck other women without any fear of financial loss

I am so so saddened to keep reading these threads on here time and time again.

Women - protect yourself. There is a reason why a man won't marry you AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE HE'S OLD FASHIONED.

OP posts:
whathaveiforgottentoday · 12/01/2018 20:41

Not stopping working is key to being financially independent if you need to be. Even if you only work part time it keeps your skills up to date so you are more employable.

Ilovetolurk · 12/01/2018 20:41

pooryorick thanks for your reply but certainly in E&W it is possible to disinherit a spouse. At least it would force them into a legal challenge to obtain a share

I put my other comments on the same post but I agree they are a separate issue

IsaSchmisa · 12/01/2018 20:43

I'd hope I wouldn't be referring to the mother of my sons child as 'some woman'...

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 12/01/2018 20:43

Yes! So many people think the wedding is the point of getting married. No, it isn't. Marriage is about creating a legal contract between the two spouses, formally recognising that their finances are now pooled and that they have claims on each other's assets if they split up or if one dies.

IsaSchmisa · 12/01/2018 20:46

You can certainly attempt to disinherit a spouse, but they'll be able to challenge it. Marrying someone gives them a way to do that in a way that cohabitation doesn't. It's basically giving someone more legal rights over you. Decide for yourself if that's good or bad!

YellowMakesMeSmile · 12/01/2018 22:23

Mothers of sons here .. how do you feel about some woman/girl marrying your son so she can have a right to his pension and claim money from him

Not something I hope they have to contend with. Hopefully after guidance growing up and role models they will pick an equal partner who is modern and doesn't expect to be kept and does her share.

Neither sex should pick a partner to be a walking cash point but sadly it's the criteria for many.

Viviennemary · 12/01/2018 22:28

YANBU. If women have a private trust fund then fine don't bother getting married. If you are in any way financially dependent on a partner then get married before you have children,

PoorYorick · 12/01/2018 22:44

I don't know what E&W is, sorry. My understanding is that if I'm married but make a will trying to leave my estate to my affair partner (which I don't have, just to clarify), the partner gets squat and the husband gets all. If I'm wrong, do tell me.

I'm very sorry for everything you're going through. Obviously marriage is not the best option for everyone. It's just, as I keep saying, so many people think its purpose is to prove love, that common law spouses exist, don't realise the IHT benefits or the implications of becoming next of kin and so on. Marry or don't marry, just please make sure you know what marriage is before you decide - it'll inform your decision either way.

There ARE a lot of women on here who would have benefited from being married pre kids (not all, of course) and when you hear why they didn't, it does make me want to scream sometimes.

I'll confess I'm a bit concerned for the PP who did actually want to marry but her partner refused...but now she's pregnant, he will demonstrate his commitment by allowing her to change her name. Right.

MammaTJ · 12/01/2018 22:54

DP moved into MY rented HA house to be with me. We have 2 DC together. IF we split, he would have to leave, not me, not ever, house is in my name and my name alone. Being married or not would not change this one simple fact.

Generalisations often have one exception, this one probably has loads.

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 12/01/2018 23:03

I'm afraid that if you married your DP MammaTJ a judge on your divorce would have the power to transfer the tenancy of your house to him. Not saying this will happen of course. But on divorce all assets are open to division; even tenancies of social housing properties provided the landlord has been given notice.

YABU OP because you assume that the woman/mother is the not the higher earner / has fewer assets. Where the mother earns more/has more capital it might well be "safer" for her not to marry.

kittensinmydinner1 · 13/01/2018 07:01

YANBU to a degree. In essence it is NOT about marriage or no marriage it is about education and knowing your rights in order to make an informed and smart decision when it comes to you and your child's future.

That education though - needs to extend to basic self esteem and confidence empowerment. My take from this forum is the sheer volume of women prepared to have children with men who are clearly not invested in a long term supportive relationship with the mother.
It is truly shocking to read time and time again how women have 'accidentally' found themselves pregnant to some bloke they barely know . It begs the question- why the big hurry to have a child at all costs without really knowing the father. Or is there really such a huge gap in the contraceptive education of the female population. ?
I think we all know the answer. The majority of unplanned pregnancy is not the failure of the contraception but the failure of the user to use it. Which many women appear quite happy with - hoping and assuming that a baby will secure the relationship and even lead to marriage. Sadly that is usually the exact opposite of what will happen and they end up in the situation that the OP describes.

Take time to really know someone before having children. There are 6 hugely reliable methods of contraception out there that I can think of. Not to mention MAP . There is even Chemical termination (for those with not opposed) .

ferntwist · 13/01/2018 07:38

YANBU. You should be very wary about having children with a man who doesn’t want to marry you. It’s usually because they don’t love you enough.

watchedfrozentoomanytimes · 13/01/2018 07:46

YABU
I had a child before marriage (but engaged and now married). However it doesn’t really matter as I own half of the house and earn the most money. Really marriage has probably offered my now DH far more protection than me. I continue to work and be the higher earner. It’s not the lack of marriage that is the issue for a lot of women!

goodbyeeee · 13/01/2018 08:01

YABU and patronising to "tell" grown women to do anything. Especially when that advice involves shackling themselves to a man when it may well not be what they want or in their best interests. As pp have said there are all sorts of perfectly valid reasons not to get married even to [shock horror] the father of your children.

The important thing is to be aware of your rights/responsibilities/liabilities in whatever situation you are in so you can make an informed choice. And that goes for men as well as women.

BTW you can nominate anyone you like as your next of kin. You can also put in place lasting powers of attorney to deal with medical and financial matters. You can write living wills and advance directives. All without being married.

dollieollie · 13/01/2018 08:07

Definitely U I’m afraid, getting married will not stop any man or woman in this situation from being that naive in the first place and certainly doesn’t guarantee a solid future for them. I’m unmarried and pregnant with mine and my dp first child, I’m the higher earner and probably always will be out of the 2 of us... would I get married purely to ensure my dp financial future and security? No I wouldn’t!

A family member of mine ended up in a similar situation to the one described by the op except she wasn’t married. Couple of kids, sahm, not on deeds to the house, no bills etc. She was naive enough to live like that and when the relationship ended she had to fight tooth and nail to get anything but she is a grown adult capable of making her own decisions and had been happy to live like that for 10 years +

PoorYorick · 13/01/2018 08:21

would I get married purely to ensure my dp financial future and security? No I wouldn’t!

Why not?

dollieollie · 13/01/2018 08:34

Because for me that’s not what marriage is about I wouldn’t expect him to marry me just because it would make me more financially stable if our rolls were reversed.

Alicetherabbit · 13/01/2018 08:41

Personally I think having a child together is a bigger commitment than marriage, so why not get married. And unmarried fathers have less rights also so it is on both sides. my Dh wouldn't have kids until after we got married.

woodhill · 13/01/2018 08:41

I agree Kittens.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/01/2018 08:48

I also agree with kittens. I'm utterly amazed at some of the shit situations some posters on MN have chosen to bring babies into.

YellowMakesMeSmile · 13/01/2018 08:57

would I get married purely to ensure my dp financial future and security? No I wouldn’t!

When it's put like that it makes it sound mercenary and good digging and many wouldn't either. I wouldn't want a man that wanted to marry me for financial reasons.

kittens I agree. Some put more thought into what they order from the take away than they do choosing to have a child. The amount that think a baby will fix a dying relationship or stop a man leaving is still horrendously high.

I don't think marriage works in both cases, it's far more sensible to not get married where one party has assets to lose. Chid support for chidren yes but an adult is capable of supporting themselves, many just choose not too.

MrsDilber · 13/01/2018 08:59

I've been married for 26 years now, I never once considered getting married to protect myself. I always thought, marriage is on the slide because life is so flipping expensive now and couples have more expenses, it's harder to get on the property ladder etc.

I see your point op, the flip side is it's easier to get away, no messy divorce.

PoorYorick · 13/01/2018 09:00

Because for me that’s not what marriage is about I wouldn’t expect him to marry me just because it would make me more financially stable if our rolls were reversed.

Why would you not want the person you love to be financially secure in the event of splitting up or one of you dying? If your partner is the lower earner, it's likely that he would take the financial and career hit when your child is born. Why wouldn't you want to protect him for that?

Saying that that's not what marriage is "for you" suggests that you are one of the many people who doesn't know what it is.

therealposieparker · 13/01/2018 09:04

I adore my husband, we've been together 20 years this year, but only when we married 10 years ago did I have legal protections should he decide to piss off and leave or die.... it's amazing what rights you don't have to pensions, widows allowance etc. We got married as I had four c-sections too and that was the only way to ensure he was my legal next of kin to myself and our kids, and I would have wanted him to make decisions if anything happened to me. But mostly I married for my own protection.

MrsHathaway · 13/01/2018 09:12

I would certainly advise any woman not to have a baby with unless she is at least one of the following:

  1. Gainfully employed and intending to remain so.
  1. Independently wealthy in her own right.
  1. Married to him.

If you're going to be earning, you don't need to have a trust fund or a wedding ring to be secure with your child after a split, etc.

It disproportionately affects women because we are disproportionately represented among SAHPs and disproportionately represented among those whose careers are fucked by parenthood (multiply by an even greater factor if child has a disability).

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