AIBU to tell women to get married before they have babies

[NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1]

This forum is absolutely full up of the following stories, repeated on a loop

Woman falls in love with selfish twunt (doesn't realise at this stage he is a selfish twunt)
Woman is persuaded to move into the home selfish twunt owns, or is persuaded to by a house but only in selfish twunts name because (insert excuse here)
Woman suffers "contraceptive failure"
Woman gives up her job to look after children.
Twunt has got her exactly where he wants her - now he can fuck other women without any fear of financial loss

I am so so saddened to keep reading these threads on here time and time again.

Women - protect yourself. There is a reason why a man won't marry you AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE HE'S OLD FASHIONED.

PoorYorvik, one party only takes a hit on their career or earnings if they choose to not return to work or cut their hours. Most could carry on as before and the couple shoulder the costs of childcare between them. Nobody has to quit or reduce their hours but many do so need to realise there is often a consequence to that decision.

Marriage can be wonderful if with the right person and financial equals but marrying purely for the financial gain seems to go against the love honour cherish and keep as it's all about money.

I didn't marry my last partner and we have a dc. Thank goodness I didn't marry him. I was the higher earner and had substantial assets whereas he had no assets and although he earned fine, he is terrible with money. I am financially much better off and its much easier to manage being a single parent because I did not marry him.

Not all men are meal tickets and not all women need one.

Haven't read the whole thread - but I prefer my mums advice of "Never depend on a man".

YABU by the way you phrase it. YWNBU if you said "never depend on a man or rely on him financially" instead. That actually goes for whether you have children or not.

I have two children with Sen one still in preschool
We’re married but up to our ears in Debts and rent oh and we’re not young anymore
So married or not we’re not in a great place financially
It doesn’t feel good

PoorYorvik, one party only takes a hit on their career or earnings if they choose to not return to work or cut their hours.

Even if both parents work full time and have full care during school holidays, someone will have to take time off when the child is ill. I guess some people have full time nannies for this but most do not.

Marriage can be wonderful if with the right person and financial equals but marrying purely for the financial gain seems to go against the love honour cherish and keep as it's all about money.

What on earth is loving and romantic about potentially leaving your loved life partner high and dry if you should die or split up???

Yet again...THIS IS NOT WHAT MARRIAGE IS. Marriage is NOT a certification of love. It IS a legal contract about money, assets and legal protections such as being next of kin. If you refuse to marry because you think its intended purpose is all hearts and flowers, you do not know what marriage is.

Obviously it's not right for everyone in every situation. It's just that there are so many times when it IS, and women deliberately leave themselves vulnerable because they DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS!

Sorry for the shouting, but it drives me absolutely bonkers. There are plenty of women on here who chose either way and it was right for them and that's great. But there are so many who are happily walking into a minefield because they DON'T KNOW WHAT MARRIAGE IS before they decide whether or not they should do it!

In the case of the poster I was talking to, she is refusing to marry because providing her lower earning partner with financial security is not what marriage is about 'for her'.

Marriage is not subjective in that sense. Marriage simply is what it actually is, and the subjectivity comes in whether or not that institution is best for certain circumstances.

And my question is, if she's refusing to marry because she isn't interested in giving him financial security - why not? If marriage 'for you' is providing your loved life partner and co-parent with financial security, why on earth would you refuse to do it? In her situation and her thought process, what's the logic?

In the UK next of kin as a title means nothing legally (as far as adults are concerned). You can nominate anyone to be your next of kin. In terms of medical treatment or access to someone else's finances being next of kin confers no legal rights.

If you want the rights to make medical or financial decisions on behalf of someone else who is incapacitated - even a spouse - you need a LPA. If you don't have one you will need to go to court to get one. Even for a spouse.

If you die without a will next of kin takes on a different meaning under the intestate rules.

I would add that I didn't not marry him for financial reasons (or at least not just financial reasons) but it worked out well for me financially that I did not.

The nature of relationships is changing. Serial relationships are the norm now. I am unsure ultimately how this will affect society. But this legal talk is important, and will probably become more so.

Dollieollie you"re so right. I was married both times and had children and went through absolute hell extricating myself from the marriage as both turned out to be abusive. Marriage is no guarantee that you or your DC will be any better off

I also think that the trends for later parenthood, and smaller family size will continue.

It is our brave new world.

How many people don't know what marriage is, really though Poor Yorick? In most cases isn't it just that they don't want to marry their partners or their partners don't want to marry them, rather than they want to be left impoverished on a break up?

Are you talking about Scotland when you say a spouse can't disinherit you? Even there, you only have limited rights to moveable property I am afraid so its some protection but not much depending on the circumstances.

Like it or not, marriage is more than an agreement to share assets for the vast majority. If I had really had not nagging doubts about my previous dp regardless of the financial situation I would have married him and taken the risk of losing assets. But I didn't. I don't regret my dc at all though. Not one bit.

You're living in the past Yorick. I would say to women to set themselves up rather than rely on someone else who may or may not be reliable.

A basic or citizen's income will help.

How many people don't know what marriage is, really though Poor Yorick?

Judging by this thread, and others on the topic...an alarming number. People who think the purpose of marriage is to certify love, who don't know that it confers legalities such as being next of kin, IHT exemption and so on. A poster who seems to think it can be sufficiently duplicated simply by changing her name!

And just because I can't say it enough times, this does NOT mean it's right for everyone. There are plenty of women on this thread for whom it's not beneficial. But you can't know whether or not it's beneficial for you if you don't know what it actually does!

You're living in the past Yorick. I would say to women to set themselves up rather than rely on someone else who may or may not be reliable.

There's nothing atavistic about urging women to make informed choices. I'd argue that a simplistic 'you go girl!' approach to mothers and their earning capacity is the one that's a bit out of tune with how things are today.

The pay gap is real, and most women are earning less than their partners when they have children. Children impact on careers, especially women's careers. In many cases - not all - women would be better served by being married first, because they simply CANNOT maintain the same earning power after children. Perhaps that will change when the pay gap closes and more women are in positions of power, but right now (not in the past, as you seem to think), that's not how it is.

I've not seen anyone on here tell women to just marry and then never have to worry about money again their entire lives come what may. You are grossly oversimplifying.

@ make our future. More state help with childcare and child maintenance that reflects the cost of raising children would also help. Why should it matter if you are married to someone or not if you have sacrificed income to provide childcare and raise their children.

I think marriage is outdated. If we want to stop women being impoverished by being left with children and being penalised for taking time out of their careers to raise them we should look at child maintenance (and I think work culture). Trap that man for his money belongs in the past.

Poor Yorick - next of yin? What do you mean by that? It doesn't have any particular legal meaning in the UK.

I think marriage should be mainly about love! I would not encourage anyone to marry for any other reason.

The structure of our society means that women are paid less than men but this mainly starts to come about at child raising years (detailed studies of professional women show that they don't start earning less till this point and also that female high earners/high achievers are much more likely not to have children). The answer to me is to FIX THIS. Not to tell young women to find a rich man.

I agree with MsHathaway, I find the biggest issue for women is that even if you carry on working, childcare and dealing with sick kids is still dis-proportionally falling to women in the workplace. I see colleagues taking lots of time of for kid's illness and when you ask why their spouse's can't help out the bottom line seems to be the man's job is far more important then theirs.

YABVU

If he is a twat then marrying him is an even worse mistake as it means its going to be harder to get out of the relationship once he starts showing

Me and my partner have two children as well as her children from the previous relationships and we are not yet married. We both took lots of offence to the people who suggested we should marry before we have children, thats incredibly rude and absolutely none of your business.

If he is a twat then marrying him is an even worse mistake as it means its going to be harder to get out of the relationship once he starts showing

That's the point. If you have children, you want it to be harder for him to fuck off and leave you with them and no money.

@weepingangel12

Why? why would you want for you and your children to be stuck living with a twat. Think of the emotional damage that is going to cause.

That's the point. If you have children, you want it to be harder for him to fuck off and leave you with them and no money

Really? Because I’ve had fuck all from XH bar a couple of ridiculous CSA payments in nearly 10 years. It also made it harder for me to get away, he used court as a means to string out the divorce, exert more control and demand contact with DS1 (which he’s now more than quartered because he can’t be arsed). Please don’t think that being married guarantees you financially, it only does if he has assets/cash in the bank.
It doesn’t force a husband with no assets and no savings to provide for their children, there is no protection.

I only realised how important marriage is when I was getting divorced. Marriage ensured I had a home and security, whereas had I not been married I would have been shafted.

"BTW you can nominate anyone you like as your next of kin. You can also put in place lasting powers of attorney to deal with medical and financial matters. You can write living wills and advance directives. All without being married."

Indeed you can. But this generally involves seeing a solicitor and probably costs more than a marriage certificate from a registry office. So the "marriage is just a piece of paper" and "we can't afford it" people, probably aren't going to solicitors either.

Especially when we've had someone pipe up with the widely help myth "a baby is a bigger commitment then marriage".

Sadly, most women are not higher or equal earners to their partners and even more sadly, many do not know their rights and are not operating from a place of knowledge.

Anyone on this thread who's been offended by people who suggest they marry such as duckdarlington, do you have an alternative arrangements via a solicitor?

I guarantee the poster upthread who's "lucky" enough to be able to take her partner's name hasn't.

Marriage does not give you legal rights as next of kin in financial and medical matters. Even spouses need LPAs for that.

If we are busting "common law" myths let's bust some "marriage" ones as well.