Not impressed with the daily chanting. Do other secondary schools do this?

[ReanimatedSGB]

DS is in Year 8 and he has told me that, at the start of every lesson, they all have to stand up and chant together, something along the lines of 'we promise to be good and work hard' (OK that's NOT the wording, don';t want to give exact wording in case it outs us).

Every lesson FFS. This strikes me as a waste of time (DS told me that the class took to dragging it out as much as possible in lessons no one likes) and... well. a bit creepy and cultish. AIBU?

ivykaty44
I agree. I've seen and heard some odd things from schools.

One of my top ones was a feckless manager type pulling me in for a quiet word about how it's a little awkward but had I considered that my hair and make up might be a distraction for the y11 boys and that's fine whilst they were behaving but she wanted to check I actually did use a range of behaviour strategies.
The thing was it was my normal hair and I didn't wear make up.

Apparently, she was just looking out for me because 'you know how things can be...'

I was pissed off on multiple levels. Not only was it a bitchy attempt to have dig at my professionalism but also what an insult to those students.

Maisypops some people seem to take ‘control’ to far, they don’t understand when to stop

Totally agree with you.
It's why I think time and effort should go into challenging those things and not 'i don't like the fact that you told Timmy that his trainers were trainers. I mean i know the unifprm.policy says no trainers but they are black so who cares? / I don't like the school's new entry routine to class. Who do they think they are trying to create a school ethos? It's brainwashing'.

I think the above is where it stems from, it’s starts of small and the power increases

I dont see how it’s similar to making people chant “I love big brother”. Do they chant that they love the HT? You said they were (roughly) saying they’d be good and work hard. I think the actual wording would be quite significant but I guess we’re not going to hear it!

The wording is not particularly offensive (OK, I'm a writer and its cheesiness and poor syntax annoys the fuck out of me but that is my own personal problem). I would rather not quote it in case it's identifying, but it's along the lines of being ready to learn and achieve.

As to telling your DC they don't have to follow a rule: Yup. I'm right behind that when the rule is both petty and harmful. I do believe in picking my battles, but it is extremely important to teach children that arbitrary, spiteful 'authority' should be resisted and challenged, and good ways of doing this.
If the school were to introduce a rule or practice that was not just dumb but dangerous, I would definitely be challenging it (a random hypothetical example would be: all pupils must have X colour winter coat and if their coat is the wrong colour it will be confiscated even if they only wear it to travel to school, because they can't afford another one in the 'new' approved colour). First I'd do a polite phone call or email. If that didn;'t work I would write to the Chair of Governors. If that didn't work it would be time to involve the LA and the local paper.

Believe me, we're a long way away from unquestioning obedience...

ReanimatedSGB
It sounds to me like you are very much 'don't follow rules you don't like' and maybe that's why the school has been taken over by a new head who is probably battling years and years of parents deciding that only some rules apply to gheir DC whilst usually going on about how shit the school is.
Schools run on consistency abd rules. Rules may differ school to school but they have to be folllwed. E.g. I taught in a non uniform school. Behaviour was brilliant. The students folloeed a dress code and i never had to mention it. They were polite and respectful (very similar to most of the students at my current school which has a strict uniform but it isn't one of these everything from one shop). The common thing in both schools was that rules were followed consistently.

In another school, it could take 15 minutes to start the lesson because studenst would turn up whenever, you'd have to get them settled, then have a negotiation about why someone doesn't have a pen, why they need to remove fhe full face of makeup, why David mustsit back in his correcr seat etc. And all of this was because rules weren't consistent across school because in every class there werr a handful of pupils who if you called home then home would back the child because 'why does it matter if he didn't write the date and title. It doesn't really matter. Why does it matter thay she told a child to fuck off? It's not her gcses. How does saying fuck off affect her learning? I've already told if anyone starts then she batters them'.

I told a child to sit down and takr their coat off. They were busy verbally absuing their peers. The child didn't like it so shoved me back into a table before storming out. His mother gave all the 'it's a silly rule. Why does it matter if he was wearing his coat?' when she was in school defending her child! But i guess that's fine. It was my fault for expecting a basic rule to be followed because it's so damn unreasonable.

I'm not a massive fan of all the rules i've seen in takeover situations, but I entirely understand why some of them are put in place.

Sounds to me like a horrible low level mind control technique. Definately a slippery slope type thing.

I went to my grandsons school and they all sang the school song about sharing values and striving for the best community. My blood ran cold all I could see was that scene from Cabaret when all the Hitler youth stood up and started singing Fatherland.

I find this extremely modern idea that schools and employers have of being value based extremely frightening. My employer does this and it seems to mean agreeing with all management decisions and implementing without question. We should just trust our management have made these decisions based on our values and as we all share those values therefore we can just accept the decisions are the right ones

This kinda stuff is not benign it instills a mindset of conformity and obedience and the lightweight end is what is described here in this dchool. But it really does explain how ordinary people come to march other ordinary people into gas chambers. Blind obedience is dangerous - the most dangerous thing a human being can do.

It sounds ridiculous to suggest this type of discipline in schools can ultimately lead to holocaust but it is true. The worst atrocities ever committed by humans have been by those blindly obeying laws - not by those breaking them.

Whoa base camp instilling values and discipline into a school setting is a hell of a jump to the holocaust and I think you are disgusting for suggesting so. Children have always had school songs to sing, some made for the school some old ones. Ours was Jerusalem. Likewise we said the Lord’s Prayer every day in assembly.

I am utterly speechless that you would reference such a disgusting moment of history and compare it to a school that’s been taken over and is trying to instil basic respect and discipline. Fml

If the chanting is a way to remedy a lack of motivation in the students then I'd be a bit concerned that the school is lacking competence in evaluating their curriculum and teaching methods. There are much better ways to engage children and facilitate interest and a desire to learn. If the students are disinterested and unmotivated explore the reasons why. Then make modifications. Chanting is a poor substitute for a real solution.

mamma
I don't see it as a motivation technique as such (and the idea of entertaining or motivating students as a prerequisite for basic pleasant behaviour is a wprrying one, right up there with pupils will mess around until the teacher earna respect. Respect is part of basic human yo human interaction. Behaving in a courtesous manner according to the place is also basic human interaction).
The school are probably doing it more part of instilling core values and part of having a consistent start to each lesson.

Personally, it's a bit cheesy and isn't something I would do. But the way people are carrying on here is ridiculous.

Sorry millions of typos (even more than usual) - phone typing is rubbish for me

If I was a teen having to chant I know I would change the words to be oh so witty.

Achieve would become a cheese, etc.

It sounds daft to me.

Just had a quick look at Harrow uniform requirements. It was clearly a very shit school with all those fiddly items!

www.billingsandedmonds.co.uk/best-uniform-items/c61

And Eton! Anothe school with no grasp of discipline and filled with students, and parents, with low expectations. www.billingsandedmonds.co.uk/schoolwear/c128

For those people who dont think students should be expected to follpw the rules in school, and take any they have issue with to the school council, how often would you go to / park your car in / send your own children to a school where 1300 teenagers are not expected to follow school rules? Or is it just your own child who should be free to behave as they want?

Who said they thought children shouldn't follow any school rules? Nobody did. They said this stupid chanting is not something they should do.
Hope you can tell the difference (since it is such a massive one)

Sorry booboobooboo84, I agree with basecamp21 who is not being disgusting at all. Basecamp21 is making a valid point. What happened with the Nazis, what is happening with the North Koreans is something all people in the world have a potential to do. All people are equal and have the same potential to be conditioned to extreme conformity and horrendous acts. Most people think they are good people and could never do that. There was a social science experiment where participants were told that when they pressed a button these other participants they could see through a one way window would feel electric shock but not be able to see who was administering the shocks. The participants who were seemingly getting shocks were actually actors and they weren't really getting electric shocks at all. The participants who were administering the electric shocks didn't know that. The facilitators instructed the participants to increase the voltage and intensity of the shocks. The actors screaming in agony. The purpose of the experiment was to see how many people would continue to follow the directions of the facilitators and at which point would people draw a line and refuse to inflict pain. A surprising number of people blindly followed directions to increase voltage regardless of how much pain or suffering was apparently being experienced by the participants being shocked. This proved that regular people had the potential for inhumanity and cruelty no different from the Nazi's. We should learn from history and recognize the red flags. Stop it before it's too late. Nazi Germany was gradually conditioned over time, it did not just suddenly decide to destroy a whole race of people. Conformity, unquestioning obedience to authority, having to think the same, having to agree, lack of freedom to choose, uniformity where individuality and diversity is discouraged, are all red flags. Using singing and chanting to brainwash children is a red flag. It looks harmless and trivial. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is a precursor to something more sinister.

"I have always been very civil in my interactions with them."

The fact you think this earns you praise, rather than being expected as part of normal adult behaviour, says it all. Is this harming your child? No. Leave the professionals to it please.

I am a teacher.

I would find this very peculiar. Children tend to arrive at different times anyway so you’ve got the ones who arrived first standing and waiting for the ones who arrive later. Then you can’t get into work, you’ve got to chant some shitty thing? No thanks.

Lots of schools make the kids line up before coming in. I hate that too. What’s the point of a congested corridor? Get them in, sat down and working!

Outs ?? Ffs

Wow weepingangel havent you woke up today in a massive rude grump! I suggest YOU read the thread again. This time properly, and note that actually it was suggested that children shouldn't be taught to just follow rules. Then come back and apologise for being such a cowbag. I hope you can see that. It is a massively rude accusation you made after all.

Is this harming your child? No. Leave the professionals to it please

How do you know it isn't? Thats an arrogant stance. No, we will not leave our children to professionals, thank you

And as for “leave the professionals to it”, I can assure you there is nothing in the process of training to be a teacher that promotes daily chants!

This time properly, and note that actually it was suggested that children shouldn't be taught to just follow rules

They shouldn't be taught to blindly follow rules. I thought it was so obvious that we were talking about sensible rules that I gave you the courtesy of assuming you knew the difference. I apologise for that.