Not impressed with the daily chanting. Do other secondary schools do this?

[ReanimatedSGB]

DS is in Year 8 and he has told me that, at the start of every lesson, they all have to stand up and chant together, something along the lines of 'we promise to be good and work hard' (OK that's NOT the wording, don';t want to give exact wording in case it outs us).

Every lesson FFS. This strikes me as a waste of time (DS told me that the class took to dragging it out as much as possible in lessons no one likes) and... well. a bit creepy and cultish. AIBU?

I think the that parent thing is an insidious way to try and get parents to be uncritical of the environment they trust their children to 5 days a week.

No, definitely not at DS's secondary. I think he'd piss himself laughing. Sounds like something they would do at the start of the day in primary. Once a day would be tolerable. At the start of each lesson is overkill.

that parent?

On what grounds? She hasn't done anything yet.

that parent

More like that school ffs!

Have they had a recent OFSTED inspection that was less than complimentary? I ask because that’s the exact type of thing 2 schools round here brought in after being told they need to improve. It’ll probably fizzle out by the end of the school year!

‘the obsession with fucking blazers and ties and 'discipline'. the endless testing, the culture of snooping and spying and harassing’

Couldn’t agree with you more, OP, as to the chanting and the above!

‘There's some sort of psychology (or at least theory) behind this. They do it in call centres as well. It's something to do with people who have low motivation and low incentive to engage.’

A disrespectful way to grind down those who already have little control over their day, you mean? Reciting things is not learning.

My DD had a job in a uni canteen (US uni) during her second term there. They had this sort of thing at the start of every shift. She says that, apart from her, the staff all took it seriously. I told her she didn't have to believe it, and to keep quiet if necessary.

‘But tbf OP teenagers are in need of form control. Everything about their lives is changing and they do need and thrive on simple clear instructions.’

Yes but chanting the same thing every lesson is not providing simple clear instructions, it’s inviting them to tune out.

they need and thrive on simple clear instruction

So teenagers need to be treated like dogs or cats, maybe it all ought to written out in bright colours and held up on cards ffs

I stand by what I say. Teenagers thrive on simple and clear instruction. Do they need to stand up and chant like monks? Nope probably not. But they do better to hve a clear indication the lesson has started. A uniformed central clear approach that no one can misunderstand. If everyone stands and chants then there can be no excuses for any fuckwittery that follows.

It depends how it is done and whether it's part of other school development plans.

Sometimes these things can be a waste of time and are pointless.

Sometimes there are benefits.

Sometimes there are benefits but they are undermined by staff who think looking cool to the students is more important than understanding the defninition of consistency.

I used to work in a special measures school. Students stood when staff enteted. It was part and parcel of embedding standards consistently across the school. In a school where there'd been years of problems, parents attending themselves, getting limited GCSEs and of the opinion 'i did alright without so why should i care he isn't doing homework' / 'so what if they smacked someone. I told them if anyone say owt then you batter them', it takes a lot to turn around a school where you are battling a longstanding culture

Some parents hated that we were evil and draconian for telling studnets that uniform was uniform. They also thought we were backwards for having whole school assemblies. They were annoyed that our consistent behaviour policy was 'brainwashing' students. All staff had the same way through the policy e.g. 'you have been asked to do x. If you choose not to, there is a sanction. I would like you to make a positive choice' (changed obviously)
What was actually the case (even though I didn't like everything) was it was school leadership having to establish a strong school culture and ethos when we had an uphill battle to improve the school.

Even in a good school, I have set routines at the starts and ends of lessons. Students stand behind their chairs and when they are silent I dismiss them.
Sure some people will argue that time getting that right was a waste of time. It actually saves me time though because I don't spend lots of time telling children off, I don't have to give out lots of detentions, the class ethic is we are here to work hard & be respectful of each other.

TLDR = It depends how and why it is done.

Well it's easy for anyone to 'turn off' anywhere, including (especially ) in school.

What they need are intelligent, humane and inspiring teachers not bleedin' sergeant majors.

I agree ppeatfruit and what those teachers need is a class that’s listening to them. Hence the students need to learn when it’s tike to focus. Be it with a whole school bell, a chant. Standing behind chairs. Etc. Or something different for each teacher. Not all children arrive at school having been prepared by their parents to learn. So there has to be a clear sign the learning time has begun

It's such a shame that the curriculum is not as inspiring as it should be, also so many children have such varying needs and learn in different ways. It's not simple as you must know. (Even though the powers that be would have it so).

Ds is G&T but was put off school very early on by poor teaching.

Agree boo.
If there is a school with an issue with behaviour, limited parental support, entrenched issues etc then an overt consistent thing will probably be best.

If the school has generally good behaviour then more teacher flexibility is needed.
Depending on my class/school, I've done all of the following at the starts of lessons:
One line, coats off read to come in

Straight in, stuff out, task on the board. Students knew that was their responsibility to get on with it.

"Good morning y7" "good morning mrs pops"

Stand behind chairs, then sit. Give first instruction/start the lesson.

Students brought their favourite poem and I kept them in a file. Each lesson a student read their poem to the class.

Discussion prompt on tje board for whilst they were unpacking things. 3 2 1 silence. Share ideas.

All done as a routine for consistency.

• ready to come in even

Also done 10 minutes silent reading at the start too.

*lookingforthecorkscrew

I worked as a teacher at a school that did this, I fucking hated it. It’s the thin end of the wedge...*

Can I ask which wedge - what could this lead to?

The best teachers and classes were always the ones were you knew exactly what was expected of you.

We all expect so much of teenagers. They are literally a mess of hormones, emotions plus pile on social media, phones, porn, internet and they have it worse than we were at school. I don’t see why every teacher and parent isn’t doing everything to make like more consistent and clearer for them. I can understand why parents allow haircuts that are against policy and then send their kids in to fight that battle. Why would you neglect your child’s need to feel safe and secure like that. Likewise I can’t abide any teacher who places more stead by what grade each student is getting rather than what effort they are putting in.

Hahaha I’ve had some epic auto correct fails. I can’t under stand parents who send in kids flouting uniform rules.

And making life clearer and consistent

boo
Clear expectations and consistency go a long way.
Students don't like inconsistency. They don't know where they stand.

So Alex messes on on Monday and it's ok, but she does the same on Thursday and gets a detention. Daniel finds harmless playfighting is ok p4 on Friday but by Tuesday teacher sends him out because 'that's not how you enter my room'.

Some schools because of circumstance do benefit from having very rigid procedures (especially if they're dealing witj attitudes like 'don't worry about initiative x because if nobody follows it then it'll be gone by christmas'). I don't always like or agree everything some schools do and some chains are worse for it than others but I can usually see why they might do things.

Well, for example, the only rule a school needs regarding hair is that, if it's long, it has to be tied back (especially for any lessons with a practical element.) Anything else is petty bullshit. Having bright green hair has no effect whatsoever on their ability to do sums or analyse a paragraph.
School uniform which is both expensive and poorly-made, covered in logos and only available from a particular shop, is definitely an indication of a bad school - and a school which is trying to 'improve' by getting rid of all the disadvantaged students, usually.

It's very unhealthy to teach children they must obey without question and 'respect' pointless bullying - and a good idea to demonstrate to them that you as a parent have got their back when they are being treated unfairly.

So if you allow your teenager to go out on their own and they get their hair cut in a certain style. Against policy How, apart from keeping them locked in their room, are you going to stop it?

Hair cut policies are beyond ridiculous and make the staff that set them look crazy (I suppose it sets teenagers up for ,learning, realising that the law is an ass). The styles are changing ALL the time.

Well if my teenager went and got a haircut against policy they would be going back to get one that is within policy. And they would do so without too much complaining because they would understand as their parent they will do as they are asked. They may not like it but they are raised with respect. I would respect them to not break the rules and they would respect my insistence that they rectify any mistakes they make.

And when it comes to uniform/hair requirements etc. You choose to send your child to school. There is no legal requirement to send your child to school just to ensure they receive an adequate education. If you don’t like the rules they make - remove your child and put them in a school that suits your rules. Very simple.

And as parents it’s improtant to teach your children to pick their battles and not take everything as a personal attack.

Well, for example, the only rule a schoolneedsregarding hair is that, if it's long, it has to be tied back (especially for any lessons with a practical element.) Anything else is petty bullshit. Having bright green hair has no effect whatsoever on their ability to do sums or analyse a paragraph.
No it doesn't. But you know what, in life there are rules. I had a nose piercing when I started teaching. Lots of schools have a no unconventional hair colours, no tattoos on show and no facial piercings as part of the dress code. I could decide 'eh this is pure bollocks like I'm still a good teacher even if I came in with 173 rings in my eyebrows'... or I could be a sensible adult and understand that workplaces have rules.

School uniform which is both expensive and poorly-made, covered in logos and only available from a particular shop, is definitely an indication of a bad school - and a school which is trying to 'improve' by getting rid of all the disadvantaged students, usually.
Sweeping generalisation there.
Some uniforms are completely crap in my opinion.
However, the schools near me who have gone down the route of prescribed uniform have done so because they got fed up of parents buying leggings as trousers, trainers as school shoes, short tight jersey skirts as school skirts etc. (Mainly from thr same parents who send them in with red hair, dip dye etc) usually with the justification of 'my mum says it doesn't matter if i don't follow uniform becaude it's shit anyway'.

And then we get back to the problem some of these schools face: a longstanding culture of 'only follow rules ypu fancy. If thr teacher tells you to do something you don't want to, refuse and I'll come in and kick off'

Put it this way, I was assalted by a student once as he was verbally abusive to his peers and trashed my lesson. Mum came into school to DEFEND her child because 'he didn't want to take his coat off. He wasn'r ready to sit down. What difference does it make where he sits?'

It's very unhealthy to teach children they must obey without question and 'respect' pointless bullying
Following rules you don't like isn't pointless bullying. The fact you think it is probably is telling.
I expect my students to follow my rules, even if they think they are pointless. If thry wish to discuss them with me, we arrange to do that. If students feel there is a collective issue, we have student leadership bodies who represent them.
We teach them how to raise issues appropriately because in life just saying 'narr i don't think so' doesn't get you too far (and it's that culture which leads schools to become sink schools).
and a good idea to demonstrate to them that you as a parent have got their back when they are being treated unfairly
Unfairly? Or just being asked to follow a basic set of school rules you might not personally prefer?

At the moment you are starting to sound like the very person who is part of the culture of 'teachers give rules you don't like. Don't you worry kiddo. I'll tell them'.

Schools and there staff have become stranger and weirder as time goes by. Some schools even dictate what the pupils and staff wear outside school whilst travelling to school. They will trip themselves up at some point