Not impressed with the daily chanting. Do other secondary schools do this?

[ReanimatedSGB]

DS is in Year 8 and he has told me that, at the start of every lesson, they all have to stand up and chant together, something along the lines of 'we promise to be good and work hard' (OK that's NOT the wording, don';t want to give exact wording in case it outs us).

Every lesson FFS. This strikes me as a waste of time (DS told me that the class took to dragging it out as much as possible in lessons no one likes) and... well. a bit creepy and cultish. AIBU?

That's a tricky one user I have personally been involved with teachers who do not want the best for the children. Unless that involves filming boys getting changed for football.

Says the person who is stating what the school will or won't be doing

No, says what their own children would or would not be doing in a hyptothetical situation.
Gosh, there are some confused people on here.

No, because some parents are just unsupportive for the sake of it. Not many, I hasten to add, most parents are brilliant at supporting school staff and working with them. However I've seen teachers be really negatively impacted by the ones who are not, and I feel sorry for them. The chanting is silly, I agree with you entirely. But choose your battles?

Pp - obviously their are minorities in every group. I think it's pretty clear that I meant the majority of teachers want the best, as do the majority of (but not all) parents.

No, because some parents are just unsupportive for the sake of it

some may be, but that isn't what we are talking about here. OP has a real issue, and has a lot of people agreeing with her. Will you stop saying pick your battles, its so patronising and arrogant! OP has picked her battle, and its this one. Not your business.

*there!

"Not your business"

It's literally on the internet...

Anyway, I'm going to pick my battles now because this isn't productive. I'm sorry you feel so negatively about teachers.

Years ago I saw a documentary making the same point about the blind obedience that can lead to tyranny, including the electric shock experiment. But it also referred to another step that leads to human rights abuses, the categorising of people into “them and us” with the idea that some people are lesser than us and do not deserve basic respect and fair treatment from the other group. In schools this is often a fair reflection of how staff are viewed by many students - and sadly some parents too.
It’s too convenient to pull out one aspect (obedience can lead to a holocaust!) and not look at others, such as lack of respect, inhumane treatment (one teacher here has described been shoved into a desk) and kindness. Teachers aren’t the enemy (though it’s a good smokescreen to see them as such).

Anyway, I'm going to pick my battles now because this isn't productive. I'm sorry you feel so negatively about teachers

I don't. I love teachers. Half my family are teachers. They would agree entirely with questioning schools on their silliest ideas, and wouldn't let their children do this ridiculous chanting.
Shame you have such little respect for teachers that your stock answer is for people to just home educate. You must think very little of teaching if you think just anyone can do it at home?

Mistress As was just discussed, there of course annoying children just as there are annoying teachers.

I KNOW there is a "them and us'" attitude among teachers towards the pupils . I think it's a human response but it should be recognised and stopped in it's tracks esp. by teachers.

OP has picked her battle, and its this one. Not your business.

Then don't ask about it on a public forum.

bfgdreamtree
No. Remove the chanting from the school.

Where do you stop?

There are children (and parents) that don't like PE do we stop doing that?
There are children (and parents) that don't like being told off do we stop doing that?

This is just a way of re-enforcing the start of the lesson and probably (because the OP hasn't said) behaviour rules in the lesson.

It may also have come up because of those parents that complain that their children were not aware of 'X' rule.

I’m not talking about there being some annoying pupils (or teachers). I’m talking about an adversarial attitude from children, often supported or perhaps initiated by their parents, that teachers are a lesser class and anything they say should be doubted as a first response. Where is the mutual respect (and I respect children before they do anything to “earn” it, before that line is trotted out, so yes some basic respect and politeness I think is owed to staff from the start, just as it is to any human being.
As for the original post, there’s an assumption that staff want this brought in. One promoted member will have introduced the idea. It is introduced to achieve an end, so at a certain point it should be evaluated to see if it has - this should include speaking to staff and students about how they find it. Rather than saying “my kids won’t be doing this” as some have said, why not ask the school to clarify the purpose, and ask how they will be evaluating it, and when, and then ask for the results of this.

I haven't, as yet, picked a fight with the school about it. I've told DS it sounds a bit silly but probably won't hurt him, and that going along with it for the moment is good manners.

But it's the sort of thing I am keeping an eye on. There is so much evidence of the damage this 'shut up and obey your 'betters'' has always done that I think it's essential to teach kids to be ready to question orders they are given, at least those which appear stupid and/or dangerous.

Where do you stop?

You could stop with the silly chanting, couldn't you? Is it on the curriculum, like PE is? No, then it is not comparable.

The "slippery slope" argument does not work here.

Mistressiggi and ppeatfruit, excellent points about the them and us attitude. I agree. Students, teachers, parents, governments, employers/ees etc. can all have those attitudes from time to time. Agreeing, disagreeing, questioning and discussion doesn't have to result in a them and us attitude. And as for the teacher who described being pushed by a student who didn't want to take his/her coat off. If my child did that I'd make sure I made it clear that it is unacceptable to push or shove someone just because you didn't agree with their expectations or rules. I'd make sure the teacher knew that I was sorry she was shoved and that I wouldn't be condoning that behavior from my child whether or not I agreed with the teachers expectations/rules. The Op doesn't seem to be communicating a them and us attitude towards the school. She comes across more as questioning the changes that have occurred as a result of new HT and whether she should be concerned about the chanting. Should she discuss her concerns with the school, other parents, mn community? Discussion is good. There have been some very interesting points made, food for thought. How would we counteract potential brainwashing, mindless obedience while at the same time avoid fostering a them vs us attitude and disrespectful behavior? How do we as parents involve ourselves in our children's education without making the teachers job more difficult than it needs to be? There is a balance somewhere.

I think the question with chanting that we're going to work harder and give our best effort is does it work? Does it actually refocus kids' minds that this is a lesson and that they need to crack on with learning, or do they switch off and not actually think about what they're saying as many do when reciting something over and over e.g. prayers or the brownie promise? And if they do switch off, is it still a good behaviour management technique for an orderly start to the lesson? Doing something in unison may be a helpful settler.

Would someone who objects to group chanting object to group singing?

I think the school in question is probably trying to establish a culture of learning, rather than a cult.

It's patrionising to the children, its cringey and embarassing. It won't work at all, and it will not engender mutual respect, rather contempt from the students to those who make them chant like parrots, and who feel the lack of respect from the people doing so.

You really couldn't do much worse to foster either respect or motivation. Can you think of anything less motivating? Would you want to do it every hour in work?

"missyB1 Fri 12-Jan-18 19:00:27
OP I suspect in the staff room you are known as that parent"

This is another one of those MN buzzphrases that really pisses me off. It's a daily-mailesque phrase that people who have never questioned anything in their lives like to trot out to try to shame others into similar mindless obedience. It's actually ok to be critical. Civil, always, but critical too. That's actually your democratic duty, not the mindless goose-stepping that the daily mail would have us carry out. I'd be horrified if my kids school did this, it might have limited impact in itself but it's a sure signal that school management have lost the plot. And as for being 'that' parent, I'd love to hear honest opinions of what the staff really think about nonsense like this, because i can't imagine they are over the moon about it either.

Thank you Mamasmitten I agree with you also with bfg and frogsoup

I think it's very much a 'control' thing that has a variety of roots;

A. The schools are too big thus engendering a feeling of 'them and us.

B. Children are feared en masse like any group.

C. Everyone is stressed by the culture of examinations. Ofsted inspections etc

D There is little room in the curriculum for creativity nowadays .

I think the school should be approached to voice concerns. Not just because it is every lesson, but because it is being dragged out at some and restricting teaching time. It strikes me as the kind of school rule similar to that of the school in Great Yarmouth discussed a few months ago.

The other consideration is that whether or not this kind of thing could bring back painful memories for a child who has fled a country with an autocratic regime, if there is one in the school.

I think automatically linking chanting to autocratic regimes is a bit hysterical.

My DS goes to Beavers and at the end of each session they do a group chant about Beavers being friends before they go. Is this sinister? The path to North Korea?

I think if the kids were chanting unstinting devotion to the dear Headmaster then eyebrows could be raised, but being good and working hard? Really?

My DS goes to Beavers and at the end of each session they do a group chant about Beavers being friends before they go. Is this sinister? The path to North Korea

Well, according to a poster upthread, your DS is on a path to joining the Hitler Youth in the near future.

It's a combination of chanting and the uniforms, see

I do think that’s different actually giraffe as you choose to go to Beavers. Arguably yes, people choose to go to school. Except they don’t. Not really.

If one school does chanting which you don't like, other options are available. It's not a state-education thing.