Not impressed with the daily chanting. Do other secondary schools do this?

[ReanimatedSGB]

DS is in Year 8 and he has told me that, at the start of every lesson, they all have to stand up and chant together, something along the lines of 'we promise to be good and work hard' (OK that's NOT the wording, don';t want to give exact wording in case it outs us).

Every lesson FFS. This strikes me as a waste of time (DS told me that the class took to dragging it out as much as possible in lessons no one likes) and... well. a bit creepy and cultish. AIBU?

School 'improvement' these days seems to be a lot more about moving the goalposts so a school can be labelled as 'failing' and sold off to an academy chain. (Because academies are the answer, right?

I always remember the tv showing perfectly uniformed\blazered , neat haired little12 yr old boys shrieking and running after other boys in the streets. They were about to (or had just) committed a knife crime.

No doubt they were at one of those 'improving schools' All the cosmetic 'improvements' (including chanting) can do nothing to improve the behaviour of dcs who have violent and or criminal backgrounds. or who are being bullied to keep in with the gangs.

If students don’t come to school already with a culture of hard work and good behaviour and if the school doesn’t actively seek to establish or maintain that culture, then what do people think the predominant narrative will become and who will be setting it?

The comparison with the workplace is facile. Workers (mostly) already turn up to work with a motivation to do their job - in order to collect their pay cheque. You can generally expect to turn up to work and not have colleagues whose active motivation is to prevent you from doing your job. People are already usually rowing in the same direction.

As for not trying to mould students and just let them get on with things as individuals - schools are not like lending libraries where kids turn up, sit in a few lessons then go home. They’re communities where pupils will spend a significant proportion of their waking hours. Their classmates aren’t people they barely know but the pool from which most of their friends will come. Their school experience will mould them regardless. What form would you like that moulding to take?

noble, while some posters on this thread seem against any discipline at all, there are others who approve of discipline per se but are concerned about what ppeatfruit refers to as "cosmetic improvement": the idea that you can change a whole culture through corporate slogans. Much liked by senior management because corporate slogans come cheap and dress code costs can be moved onto parents.

I may be a bit of a cynic here, but as somebody whose workplace is just launching a 75 staff job cut under the slogan Simply Better, I'm not totally enchanted by the idea of teaching young people that corporate slogans do the work of real input.

BashStreetKid

I'd have thought it would be seriously counter-productive. No self-respecting teenager could resist being subversive about it and using every opportunity to take the piss.

those teenagers that respect themselves and others will just do it to get to the lesson.

Those that use this to disrupt and take the piss aren't self respecting, they are the ones that cause the disruption in the class, and TBH if it gets rid of them early and allows others to learn then good.

Ditto mission statements

Sorry that was to Cory

Cory The amount of money spent by companies (sometimes it's councils) on changing their names, image, brand etc. annoys me intensely, it's so fake and unnecessary.

They employ teams of consultants too tell them where to cut costs (in other words sack people) and those consultants cost thousands The irony is lost on many rate payers.

If this is happening in schools too then I'm lost for words.

Could this be an free school? As this sounds like the one my friend's child was withdrawn from, has it "Outstanding results" but has only been opened 5 minutes.

Cory: Thank you, that's very, very much what I mean.
There's a recruitment crisis in teaching at the moment, so a lot of schools are struggling and having to make do with part-time teachers or underqualified ones (the current thing is getting rid of experienced, well-paid ones and bringing in NQTs and TAs on much lower salaries) - so lessons are not great and the kids are disengaging - and this sort of 'cosmetic improvement' is not only pointless but costs money that would be better spent elsewhere.

I don't see the problem.

My school did something similar to this in our morning form class and then in each lesson thereafter (5 lessons). It was a religious school in the 90s. Once a week we'd go to a religious assembly rather than form and we'd have 15 mins of it. I'm not religious. It didn't really bother me unless a particular teacher saw that I wasn't saying anything and told me to join in - on those occasions I reminded them of the schools 5% ''other denomination/non religious intake policy". I just bowed my head and had a bit of peace and quiet for a minute or two whilst most of the other kids prayed. Not a big deal. It obviously doesn't indoctrinate kids other wise me and all my friends would be devout Catholics - which we're not, even the ones who did their morning prayers. Most people just joined in to keep the teachers happy and stay out of bother - it was a lesson in discipline and focus as far as I could see. I felt I had enough of that without having to speak to a deity 6 times a day. Each to their own. I did get an A* in Religious Studies so I got something out of it.

I am assuming (perhaps charitably?) that this school is not attempting to instil a culture of learning and hard work simply by getting the kids to chant a slogan at the start of lessons. I would expect that it is being reinforced in many other ways.

Like I said before, at the start of the lesson, it is not merely a chant - a cosmetic change. It is a routine, and it is a focused start when everyone is doing the same thing and when it's over, the teacher can get on with it. The words appear to be acceptable (work hard, be good) and whether they work as an affirmation or not, they may yet work as a behaviour management technique.

My slogan at the moment with one of my classes seems to be 'this is a maths lesson, not a social occasion'. Perhaps if I made it the opener to my lesson I wouldn't have to remind them so bloody often. Actually, this thread has given me an idea.....

those teenagers that respect themselves and others will just do it to get to the lesson.

Those that use this to disrupt and take the piss aren't self respecting, they are the ones that cause the disruption in the class, and TBH if it gets rid of them early and allows others to learn then good.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. Because this is an insult to hard-working and intelligent teenagers, almost more than it is in relation to the lazy ones. I was a highly conscientious type when at school, but there is no way I could have got through this sort of ludicrousness with a straight face.

What do you mean, make do with part time teachers?
What’s wrong with part time teachers?
I agree Noble I’m already formulating one about mobile phones... best if it rhymes I think.

If I use my phone
I will lose my phone
There's a clock on the wall for the time

And yes, v interested to hear the problem with part time teachers!

School 'improvement' these days seems to be a lot more about moving the goalposts so a school can be labelled as 'failing' and sold off to an academy chain. (Because academies arethe answer, right?
Nobody here is saying academy chains are the answer. You're just adding another issue in so you can conflate multiple issues to try and get people to agree with you.

I completely agree there has been an agenda regarding academisation. I have an issue with academies as a concept and the carving up of state education. However, I don't see any point making sweeping statements about academies because they would be total bollocks and i would show myself up as being poorly informed on the issue. (E.g. A stand alone converter academy i worked in was exactly the same as when it was under LA control. A small local MAT is very different from a large regional or national one. To suggest 'academies are/do...' is a pointless and inaccurate generalisation.

To be honest OP the more this thread goes on, the more it seems like you have a massive chip on your shoulder and seem to be of the view that you know all about everything to do with school improvement.

Why are you so insistent on taking the stance i don't like x y z so it must be bollocks and here's another gripe i have with schools... and now people aren't agreeing with me here's another gripe... and now I'm going into general rants about anything and everything that I think is wrong with education?

so a lot of schools are struggling and having to make do with part-time teachers or underqualified ones

Patronising 101

Such an interesting ethos "Instilling a culture of hard work and good behaviour" No one has even suggested that these following points should be taken into account for a school to be successful and engage the students….

Is the curriculum interesting and inspiring? Is there room for creativity and autonomy? Are the physical and emotional needs of the teenagers being met?

There seems to me to be a culture of creating huge examination \sausage factory type schools. As in some Eastern 'high performing' countries, that have been set up as "GOOD" examples

I fear that we'll end up with more school refusers, teenagers with suicidal tendencies, and nervous breakdowns than ever.

Hah at the suggestion that hard work and good behaviour will automatically flow from an interesting and engaging curriculum.

I thought we’d moved on from ‘they’d behave better if your lessons were more interesting.’

Well I remember I worked MUCH better when I had a humane pleasant teacher who taught with a love of her subject. Of course you probably never were a teenager noble.

And although I taught EYs I hardly ever had problems because I treated my pupils like human beings.

BashStreetKid

Sorry, but that's nonsense. Because this is an insult to hard-working and intelligent teenagers,

As was your post

No self-respecting teenager could resist being subversive about it and using every opportunity to take the piss.

ReanimatedSGB

Saying that PT teachers don't put together interesting lessons is insulting.

although I taught EYs

Try teaching teenagers maths, eh?

Schools and teachers are competing against snapchat, arseing around with your mates and being lazy, often in a culture where teachers aren’t respected and it’s not cool to work hard. There is never going to be a curriculum so engaging that it can possibly compete and win all the time against those.

although I taught EYs

Try teaching teenagers maths, eh?

Schools and teachers are competing against snapchat, arseing around with your mates and being lazy, often in a culture where teachers aren’t respected and it’s not cool to work hard. There is never going to be a curriculum so engaging that it can possibly compete and win all the time against those.