Not impressed with the daily chanting. Do other secondary schools do this?

[ReanimatedSGB]

DS is in Year 8 and he has told me that, at the start of every lesson, they all have to stand up and chant together, something along the lines of 'we promise to be good and work hard' (OK that's NOT the wording, don';t want to give exact wording in case it outs us).

Every lesson FFS. This strikes me as a waste of time (DS told me that the class took to dragging it out as much as possible in lessons no one likes) and... well. a bit creepy and cultish. AIBU?

Football chants, the army chanting as they run, reciting prayers, mantras, affirmations.

any educational situation (I thought obviously).

Why, what's different about an educational situation that renders them useless when they can provide motivation and unity in others?

Power differential for one thing. Plus who says students want unity? They are there to learn, they are not a team or an army unit. They are not part of a religion. Prayers and mantras etc are personal, this chanting is not. Forced praying is not acceptable. Teams and such you have chosen to join, and can leave when you like, these students have not chosen it, they cannot leave.
Forcing children to chant about unity and motivation when unity is not necessary and motivation is not something that can be forced on people is both pointless and insulting. And unethical.

bfgdreamtree

Chanting used to be a big part of some lessons, and some are calling for it to return to aid in the learning of various areas including times tables.

who says students want unity?

Unity in working hard and behaving themselves (or whatever this particular chant is)? Why would anyone not want to promote that in an educational setting?

noblegiraffe Sun 14-Jan-18 11:41:32
"Football chants, the army chanting as they run, reciting prayers, mantras, affirmations."

There is a difference because anybody who joins the army or takes up a place on their team knows that this is part of a tradition: if you don't like it (and I wouldn't), you just keep away from that kind of environment.

Most teenagers don't have any choice about their environment: they have to go to a school that their parents can afford, that they can get into, and that is within travelling distance.

Naturally, they have to obey rules there, even rules that they don't immediately see the point of. No community can work without rules. But it's a fine balance when you introduce new rules, rules which may not be part of any known secondary school tradition, rules which may be sending the message to the local community that "we don't think you're good enough".

Wearing silly hats and sticks at Eton is fine, because it's part of an established tradition. Singing a Latin prayer at the religious boarding school I visited briefly in my teens, also fine. Like the football chants or army slogan, it's part of their tradition and fits in with what they are. That doesn't mean introducing boaters into a comprehensive in a deprived area would be sending the same message. Chances are it won't. Context is all.

The message underlying the Eton uniform is "I can afford to look a little silly because my kind rule this society". Forcing a teen from a council estate into the same uniform will not be sending the same message- because they know it's not true. So they'll start wondering what the underlying message actually is.

My son never got into any trouble at his secondary. He is not a trouble-maker and he knew we would never stand for it. But it didn't take him many minutes for him to work out what the new head's new rules were all about, and the chance of the school ever arousing any feelings of loyalty in him plummeted from the first day of the new regime.

Unity in working hard and behaving themselves (or whatever this particular chant is)? Why would anyone not want to promote that in an educational setting?

That isn't unity. Doing something individual is not unity.

Honestly, what a crock of shit. Can't think why anyone would argue for doing such pointless, insulting, shite as this. For a joke?

I'd love to see those of you saying its fine going into work tomorrow and they say "hey, we've decided that every hour we are going to stand up and chant about how we promise to work hard and behave ourselves and work together for the good of each other and our employer".

You wouldn't say, oh jolly good, unity and hard work is a good thing so why wouldn't we want to do it? No, you'd tell them not a chance are you doing it. But its ok for kids that have no autonomy or power?

they are not a team
To be frank if your class is not a team, then you’re screwed.

I think the chanting sounds daft but I’d want to know more about it. But we absolutely do need ways for classes to feel they are working together as a team. Staff need to be a team too. It’s pretty basic stuff.

To be frank if your class is not a team, then you’re screwed

What? My kid has 7 different classes in a day, with different class mates in most of them. There are over a thousand students in his school. By what measure are any of his classes a team?

bfg
I wouldn't choose to have some kind of mantra said at the start of my lesson. But if SLT decided it was part of a wider set of measures to improve consistency around school then I'd go along with it because the big picture is a series of measures which will create a school where students can flourish and achieve. I'll go with a few measures I wouldn't personally do in my own class if it means longer term there is a school where children can achieve their potential anf staff can go to work without having the same old parents booting off and telling their kids to walk out if they don't like rules

Going to work is a different situation to turning around an underperforming. They are not comparable.

Nothing I did in my pre teaching life was similar to thr challenges of working in a chronically underperforming school and somewhere with longstanding issues of poor attainment, poor behaviour, parents who back their kids in breaking any rule they don't like /think is pointless.

I developed a consistent approach in my lessons whcih worked well for me. I really liked the kids. It still didn't stop a parent defending her child for shoving me because it was MY fault he did it, telling him to sit in his seat and take is coat of was a stupid rule because 'it doesn't matter where he sits and what difference does a coat have to his learning'.

People are missing the fairly big point which is turning around a school is a big challenge and a range of measures are needed. Would all teachers choose every measure personally? Probably not. Is unity and consistency key to improving a school? Yes.

Working together toward a common goal, being kind and helpful, looking out for each other, not doing things that negatively impact on each other. Using our different strengths to work together. I don’t see that as an unusual way to view a class! And I’m including the teacher in that, if they are a team and you’re outside it you’re in trouble!
(In the first half of secondary school they will be in largely the same groupings for many classes, even in a large school will see the same children over and over).

I'd have thought it would be seriously counter-productive. No self-respecting teenager could resist being subversive about it and using every opportunity to take the piss.

because the big picture is a series of measures which will create a school where students can flourish and achieve

What rot. Chanting will not create that school for you. It's just one more stupid idea in a sea of stupid ideas that has been steadily ruining education. What we need is to stop faffing about with this bullshit and get back to basics: letting good teachers just teach.

Working together toward a common goal, being kind and helpful, looking out for each other, not doing things that negatively impact on each other. Using our different strengths to work together. I don’t see that as an unusual way to view a class!

More bullshit. Stop trying to mold them into something and just TEACH them. Educate them. That is what they are going to school for, not to pretend to be working with people they barely know towards some common goal. Their own individual education is the goal!

Oh ffs I can’t do any individual teaching if the class as a whole aren’t cooperating with me and with each other. Listening and readiness to learn are absolute starting points, whether you want to describe that on a individual level or as a class team doesn’t change that they do need to treat each other (and their teacher) properly and remember they are not the only ones in the room in order for any learning to take place.
This is not new.

It's weird how people think that teachers could just turn up and teach a group of individuals without thinking that it would be easier if all those individuals were at least rowing in the same direction.

Schools spend a lot of time promoting unity and hard work.

Oh ffs I can’t do any individual teaching if the class as a whole aren’t cooperating with me and with each other. Listening and readiness to learn are absolute starting points

They don't need to chant and be a team to listen to the teacher! H/ave you lost sight of your actual job? Listening and readiness to learn are starting points, but wtf has that got to do with being a team? Nothing at all. A student can sit in his chair and listen and learn and be an excellent student, he does not need to conform to your stupid ideas of being in a team.
It's insulting to them, and even to yourself if you can't teach them as a group of individuals, which is what they are.

One of my friends dds at 4 comes home from her Catholic school and tells you that Jesus loves you.

She is an atheist and het husband insisted on Catholic school as his family are though he doesn't practice.

Reciting affirmations to behave well. Cant see a problem. As a pp said it is better than an imaginary friend.

Reciting affirmations to behave well. Cant see a problem

When you choose to do it, it isn't. When you don't, it isn't an affirmation at all.

BashStreetKid Sun 14-Jan-18 12:24:29

I'd have thought it would be seriously counter-productive. No self-respecting teenager could resist being subversive about it and using every opportunity to take the piss.

this has certainly been my experience

levels of piss-taking rose exponentially

When you choose to do it, it isn't. When you don't, it isn't an affirmation at all.

So do you parents never instruct your children to say please and thank you etc.

You let them choose how to behave and didnt instruct them on behaviour at all.

Right.

I dont see the difference

What we need is to stop faffing about with this bullshit and get back to basics: letting good teachers just teach.
I take it you have zero understanding of organisational culture or school improvement.

It isn't as simple as 'just let good teachers teach'. Even great teachers find getting on and teaching fairly difficult when the dominant culture is 'i'll follow rules that suit me / i'll not follow instructions i don't like'.

I loved my time teaching in an underperforming school. Itbwas challenging but rewarding.
I tell you what though, high performing schools have a different set of challenges to underperforming ones, but a noticeable feature of high performing schools is a common goal and strong school ethos of hard work and respect

Bfg I’ve already said I think the chants sound daft. But I don’t think teamwork is daft. If you work in a team at your place of employment, do you stop at the same time being an individual?