To feel uncomfortable when people repeatedly try to get you to accept refreshments?

[usedtogotomars]

Another thread made me think of this.

I know some people find it funny/charming/eccentric but am I the only one who actually finds it quite ignorant when people push food onto you and won’t accept repeated ‘honestly, I’m fine .... thank you but I’ve had enough ... no, really ....’

I’ve actually stopped visiting a friend because of this as she always wants to visit her Mum and her mum spends the entire visit getting me to try and eat something.

People used to be brought up to decline once or twice before accepting. The 'persuasion dance' was a British social norm until quite recently and still will be for some people.

There's a scene in the film Cabaret, or at least Berlin Diaries, the book it's based on, where the author (British, 1930s) eats with a German family. He's offered a lovely cake, politely declines first time, then is terribly disappointed and surprised when 'no' is taken as his answer and the cake not proffered in his direction again.

Some hosts will often have expected to have tea, coffee etc with you and, if you decline, feel they can't have one either. They may been looking forward to theirs.

I do know what you mean, also hate 'it needs to be eaten' being made my problem, (what, so you're desperate to make me feel uncomfortable, either physically, by over-filling me, or mentally?).

I think there's a socially acceptable middle ground though, which involves accepting something. Even a glass of water allows the host to relax and mark 'drinks time' so have their much-wanted coffee.

If you are uncomfortable with something as trivial as accepting offers of hospitality being used as metaphors for consent, then I suggest you take it up with the police force who came up with the idea. Because that is exactly what they were saying too

I'm not "uncomfortable" with the inappropriate use of metaphors, because I would never use this word as I consider it weak and twattish.

I would not take it up with the police force who came up with the idea because 1) They were not talking about hospitality, 2) You brought it up and misapplied it to this discussion.

More recently, I remember, as a child in the 80s, being told by mother not to say yes to all offers of food and drink, as I came across as greedy.

She suggested accepting every second offer. I took this literally and, at a friend's house, having accepted a glass of milk, felt rule-bound to decline the lovely chocolate biscuit offered by his mum (really nice, wrapped one, like a Club, Blue Riband etc). So disappointed that I still remember it.

I wouldn't be offended if someone declined something I offered them, I'd just tell them what I had and if they didn't want anything fine. I have people over to chat to them, not to eat/drink particularly. I cook dinner and offer it sometimes to friends sometimes if they're there at dinner time but I'm not offended if they don't want any, I'd just eat the leftovers the next day. I understand my cooking probably isn't to everyone's taste. I also don't have a problem eating in front of people that aren't eating, is that rude as well?

Seems like it's a minefield; I've probably been unwittingly offending people for years

Surely it is ignorant not to understand or accept that other people have their own wants/needs that don't necessarily align with your own and try to coerce people into accepting your hospitality making you happy is merely domineering, not generous or selfless.

And it can be especially disconcerting if you have family who manage to make it a double edged sword - my mother would repeatedly and very insistently try to persuade us to take more food and seconds and thirds taking it very personally if we did not, and yet she would also feel able to make pointed comments about my weight and diet, and of course the martyr behaviour of then complaining about about the hassle of catering for people (that never actually wanted it). That behaviour absolutely bears comparison with abuse and coercion.

Perhaps if you have never experienced just how awful someone like that can be if they don't get what they want, then you won't understand.

And I think echt your lack of understanding of the tea-consent video shows exactly why we still have problems with abuse and consent and power struggles. Going along with social norms for fear of upsetting other people (men) regardless of the harm to their own self is exactly what can make it hard for girls/women to say no to having sex.

I thought that the 'lesson' of providing hospitality to a stranger is that you might one day be that stranger in need and hope that someone will welcome and host you with open arms if you needed it - it is the very height of developing empathy and putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

It doesn't surprise me that some people manage to corrupt that message and make it all about how they feel and appear though or turn it onto some weird social dance, but then sadly that requires other people to validate their false 'generosity' by going along with the charade. It is clearly incredibly fucked up when you write it down.

People being genuinely welcoming and respectful of their guest and simply accepting NO if needs be, must be the defintion of a good host.

And I think echt your lack of understanding of the tea-consent video shows exactly why we still have problems with abuse and consent and power struggles. Going along with social norms for fear of upsetting other people (men) regardless of the harm to their own self is exactly what can make it hard for girls/women to say no to having sex

I understand the video perfectly. It is about sexual consent, not tea, hence the jokey delivery, to de-familiarise the audience, to get them to re-think possibly entrenched attitudes. It's not about re-thinking tea.

To equate it with hospitality/offering, which is what this thread is about , is to diminish and downgrade the reality of sexual coercion. This is what I objected to.

You brought it up and misapplied it to this discussion.

didn't misapply it. Held a mirror up to it reflecting it exactly.

The exact metaphor was that you wouldn't force tea on someone and wouldn't expect someone to accept it out of politeness. Some people on this thread are arguing that you should do exactly that.

I was merely pointing out that either it's an effective and valid metaphor or it isn't. And, judging by some of the responses on this thread, it isn't.

It's a normal social dance. Surely everyone knows that? Surely not to know that is, in the most widely accepted sense of the word, ignorant?

People corrupting social norms to bully and coerse are just that.

How about this. If someone offers you a gift, is it rude to decline it? Yes it is, very. Most of Mumsnet will tell you to accept and say thank you, even if it is plainly something you don't want (then dispose of it as you wish).

Hospitality, in the form of token food and drink, is one step away from this.

To equate it with hospitality/offering, which is what this thread is about , is to diminish and downgrade the reality of sexual coercion

But that is exactly what the metaphor is. It is equating it to hospitality. It's literally what the video is and what it says. Literally.

The exact metaphor was that you wouldn't force tea on someone and wouldn't expect someone to accept it out of politeness. Some people on this thread are arguing that you should do exactly that

You are still conflating the tea metaphor (sexual consent video) with reality of hospitable offers of tea (thread)

No-one is forcing anyone.
The suggestions about acceptance are about social pretence, the smoothing of social interaction.

To conflate the two is mistaken at best.

echt is right. If you'd like a discussion about sexual consent metaphors, do start one. This one's about visiting friends and family.

I do think it is relevant tbh

It's a good comparison as that uncomfortable, awkward and yet unable to be directly honest ("NO and please stop asking me") applies

I do think it is relevant tbh

You may be being honest, but you're wrong to equate the metaphor of offering tea the non/consensual sex video with the reality of the circumstances of offering tea in RL is a logical fallacy.

Are you quite egocentric would you say OP?

MouseMoose - fair enough - persistence is annoying.

My mil is like this - keeps offering stuff over and over. It used to drive me mad.

I'd never sit with nothing in front of me - I love tea! But don't like plates of random bits of ends of cake with it. (Know all about 'it has to be eaten!)

And I rarely have wine. She'll insist of giving a glass of wine to me but I usually leave it on the table.

She's often poured me a glass of wine after I've said no 4/5/6 times - I leave it sit on the table... and she's genuinely puzzled - ironically she hates waste!!

No, of course not barbarian

But when you have to fend people off six or seven times within a fifteen minute period, it feels very uncomfortable. And you can't show any rudeness because they are just being nice

Oh god, my MIL is like this. The insistence that I keep eating/drinking is constant. Nothing DH or I do stops it. She's a sweetie and means well but it is incredibly suffocating. No cultural differences either. It makes it a real chore to visit PILs because we know we're going to be offered something to eat and drink every five minutes, even if we've literally just finished a plate. We also can never leave without being given huge bags of random food, including things she knows we don't eat and even though we've told her we don't have room for it in our flat and that it will just go to waste.
I know she thinks she's being a good, kind host but she makes it incredibly stressful visiting her. I don't think some posters understand that this kind of thing isn't just 'asking' two or three times - it can be constant, and it's really bloody irritating.

I agree with those saying the consent video is relevant. We need to accept that no means no, regardless of the circumstances.

No doesn’t mean no I don’t want sex, but yes I’ll have a cuppa.

And I have found asking for a glass of tap water is just as much of a minefield. I like tap water, I don’t like sweetened or fizzy drinks, but I have met many hosts in my time who have taken umbrage that I have said no thanks to lemonade, or squash because I really do want a glass of water.

I have tried for the last 18 years to get my MiL to understand that if I say "no" three or more times to offers of food & drink it means that I'm not currently hungry or thirsty. She still brings me a cup of tea and a sandwich/cake/mince pie/bowl of soup.

I offer and was brought up to always have tray bakes etc just in case but I'll offer twice at most and then just tell people if they change their minds to help themselves.

If I have invited someone round for midmorning/midafternoon I would expect them to want to sit down and have a drink with me. I would think it very rude if I didn't offer them a drink. Most people would want a drink around that time anyway, wouldn't they? So when someone comes round at 3pm and say they don't want a cup of tea because they had one just before they came out I think that's a bit odd.

The cup of tea is absolutely relevant.

People, especially women are socialised to accept behaviours they don't like to make others happy. These social norms are often enforced by other women.

At one end of the spectrum is social 'politeness' accepting a cup of tea. At the other end of the spectrum is sexual coercion.

Women need to be socialised to express what they want politely but firmly and for their opinion to be accepted. All too often women are socialised into behaving like good girls for the comfort of others.

No need to be rude but "no thank you" means no.

So when someone comes round at 3pm and say they don't want a cup of tea because they had one just before they came out I think that's a bit odd.

I wouldn't want tea at 3pm. Everyone knows it's at 5.

I accept all offers cos i'm greedy and like being waited on. If there's home made cake i will have 2 or 3 slices. I've been known to ask the host if they've got any food going.
I'm sure people think im rude but im a bitch when im hungry.
If i'm hosting i do push food and drink at people.
I can't stand to think someone is hungry or thirsty cos they're too polite to ask.

If i'm hosting i do push food and drink at people.

Hopefully just offer and not push. Many of us don't like it at all.