To not automatically support my male friend (potentially triggering!)

[User14356]

Agh this is keeping me up tonight, sorry if it’s a bit rambly

My very close, male friend (totally platonic) picked up a woman last weekend at a club. I had left earlier in the night, from what I was told, they were drunk, she had a screaming argument with her friend and then he took her home. Things were done but they didn’t have full sex.

Cut to today and I get a worried message from my male friend saying he has been contacted by this girl saying he took advantage, he is a sex offender and that she’s going to go to the police. This text message was sent at 4am and badly spelled so the assumption is that she was drunk.

I want to believe my friend, but I’m now massively morally split, between not wanting to call this girl a liar, but then not being there for him if the accusations are blown out or false. For now, I’ve been supportive. Is there any way to manage this situation without taking sides- AIBU to have doubts about my friend?

*doesnt necessarily

Assass

I thought we were talking about publicising the identity of an already known suspect? In which case the friends and family would hopefully be questioned anyway?

Not a ‘wanted for questioning’ sign or anything similar? Because in that case the argument that it may have led to friends and relatives of other murder victims coming forward to name the suspect as responsible for their loved one's death. would be a bit more compelling imo.

Like I’ve already stated, I don’t have the perfect solution either.

Anyhow. Good night.

German criminal code still mentions compensation: www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html

“Anyhow. I do believe that we shouldn’t disclose the identities of the accused or the accuser to the general public (in most cases).

Releasing the name of the accused encourages other victims to come forward.”

What about women that have been raped, in high profile cases, but the rapist was found not guilty due to lack of evidence?
Surely not releasing the accused’s name in this case would save said women from having to go through an onslaught of abuse online. To have been raped & then having to read thousands of people call you a liar must be horrific. Let’s not forget that people have a way of finding out who the accuser is as well. Word spreads fast, how are you even meant to get support without revealing yourself in these cases? It’s not just about protecting innocent men.
You say that revealing the accused’s name helps more people come forward, but imo a big obstacle to women coming forward in the first place is being put on trial by the public for making the accusations.

The CICA only pays compensation to people with the most serious injuries and to victims who have been affected by the most distressing crimes

Doesnt sound as if getting compensation (as you can for other crimes) is as piss easy as some make it sound

Sorry - fat fingers. Too often the police refuse to take statements which support the accused. Disclosure issues need to be addressed so that all the evidence, whatever it is and wherever it leads is reviewed before trial, not at trial when there's no time for the defence to review it properly. Police levels need to be restored so people are not languishing waiting for decisions for 2 years and more. That's not good for genuine victims either. Legal aid needs to be restored so that divorcing women aren't encouraged to lie to get it. Police need a 'no crime' category so that patently false accusations are wiped from the accused's record. Getting accusations that are NFA'd should be easier to get off a DBS check. Some areas of the UK have a policy of prosecuting any accusation involving a child no matter what resulting in trials being stopped before they start because the legal teams get together on the day and realise that there was no crime. That wastes huge amounts of taxpayers money but it still stays on the accused's record. That's not justice. Its not justice either to have fathers kept away from their children after a not guilty verdict or NFA because social services believe he's 'probably' guilty nonetheless. Schoolboys and university students need access to their education unless and until found guilty.

False accusations will never stop but things need to be put in place to weed them out sooner and to discourage them if possible. Many of them want to cause havoc in the lives of those they accuse and the system aids and abets this. Some have mental health problems that need addressing.

I'm sure there's more if I had more time to think. It isn't just about false accusations, its about having a system that brings justice to everyone.

"Legal aid needs to be restored so that divorcing women aren't encouraged to lie to get it"

This is suggesting that divorcing women lie about rape in order to get legal aid? Have I understood what you're saying correctly?

Surely not releasing the accused’s name in this case would save said women from having to go through an onslaught of abuse online. To have been raped & then having to read thousands of people call you a liar must be horrific. Let’s not forget that people have a way of finding out who the accuser is as well. Word spreads fast, how are you even meant to get support without revealing yourself in these cases? It’s not just about protecting innocent men.
You say that revealing the accused’s name helps more people come forward, but imo a big obstacle to women coming forward in the first place is being put on trial by the public for making the accusations.

Yes, absolutely! That’s why I think saying ‘I believe you’ is so important.

Btw, whilst we have been concentrating on the rights of the accused:

I genuinely believe that not naming anyone involved is in most cases the best and safest for everyone (as I’ve already said, btw). Yes. Even the victim.

Especially in the case of ‘not enough evidence’ (but not a false accusation)...
The internet has changed the situation drastically and I do think that the legal system and society has to adapt as well.

Anyhow, good night.

What does ‘btw’ mean? Is it ‘by the way’?

Pumperthepumper you know an accusation is false when there is evidence amongst other things. Evidence that the police too often don't look for or hide- Liam Allen or several other cases in the news already this year. Historical cases are problematic. I think we are the only country in Europe without a statute of limitations. Historical cases from decades ago rely on juries deciding who is lying. There's nothing to go on but a statement most of the time.

Of course, some false accusations will end up at trial but there needs to be a way to weed out more than we do presently. And yes, people do make accusations just for the money - and for personal vendetta reasons too. Look at any of the support groups and some of the stories are heart-breaking. As I said above, the system needs to be better for everyone caught up in it. Police targets and the stereotype that all men accused must be guilty help no-one.

The internet has changed the situation drastically and I do think that the legal system and society has to adapt as well

Surely the solution to this though is to have harsh punishments for people who send hate messages/reveal secret identities etc rather than punishing the women who have been brave enough to speak up about their attacker? Or possibly reducing the chance of a conviction by refusing to bring other victims forward?

Historical cases are problematic. I think we are the only country in Europe without a statute of limitations. Historical cases from decades ago rely on juries deciding who is lying. There's nothing to go on but a statement most of the time.

Megs, come on now. You want to pretend that abuse didn’t happen because it happened years ago? Ultimately you are choosing to believe the men who say they didn’t do it over the women who say they did. You have no reason to believe one over the other, if it comes down to a statement alone.

The system we have just now results in very few false accusations. In that respect it’s working as well as can be expected.

What percentage of rape allegations do you believe to be false?

AssasinatedBeauty yes you have understood me. Like I said, look at the support groups. I'm not suggesting it happens often but it does. Actually, don't just rely on that. Women have, in my personal experience, exaggerated abuse claims to get divorced on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour, up to and including rape. Right back to before it was a criminal offence in the UK for a man to rape his wife.

There is a general issue with the naming of people accused of crimes - 'trial by tabloid'. Remember the man who was accused of killing his neighbour because he was 'a bit weird' - I think the newspapers ended up having to pay him quite a lot of money as he was completely innocent.

But (unless OP comes back, and I wouldn't blame her if she never looks at this thread again) no one knows the situation with her friend. No one knows what happened on the night in question - and no one knows whether the woman has been to the police, or whether she even intends to go to the police or was just sending the man an angry text. There's a lot of dumbfuck projecting going on here.

When figures drop by as much as they did there's more to it than people just not reporting genuine incidents. Why would genuine victims not report a crime just because they wouldn't get monetary compensation? That doesn't make any sense.

Because people wouldn’t believe them.

What percentage of reported rapes do you believe are false?

Yep, because the support groups will have the absolute truth on them with no need for any kind of evidence gathering or verification. And of course your personal experience is very important to count as representative of the wider situation. These poor men must be protected from all these lying women!

Finally looked at those websites

First two are about false accusations of child sex abuse

The third is reporting cases of 'false accusations ' with a whole lot of unsubstantiated 'she lied about me' claims

So no actual facts

Like many I believe that false accusations happen, i know someone it happened to but i also believe that there are comparatively few malicious ones

Oooh bit of a cross post with assasinated

People wouldn't believe them if there wasn't a compensation scheme? Whyever not?

It doesn't matter what percentage of false accusations I think there are. I do think its more than the government and CPS would have us believe though. My point is we need a more just system for everyone. At the moment there are no repercussions for false accusers and few ways to weed them out. Even those shown to be falsely accused have no redress. Can you imagine soending thousands of pounds on legal representation, get to the day of the trial only to be told that the case isnt going ahead because the prosecution and judge have decided that no crime has been committed? Can you imagine waiting 2 years and more to find out if you are to be prosecuted, while you lose your job, home and children, only to be aquitted in minutes? Or worse to find that evidence proving your innocence, that you've been asking for fir months, finally comes to light in the middle of your trial? And then having a Not guilty verdict or a trial thrown out under your beltrhat you still can't go home or see your children?

The system is broken. It needs fixing.

It doesn't matter what percentage of false accusations I think there are

Megs, it really does matter because you’re the one arguing that we should ignore historical abuse, and that women lie to get an easier divorce. You obviously think that’s a massive issue if you want to ignore women saying they have been abused.

So how are you gonna fix it megs

Bearing in mind it is reported as being a tiny percent of rapes

And i will just switch all that round

Imagine being raped

Imagine having to tell a bunch of complete strangers the intimate details

Imagine being intimately examined by the dr

Imagine having to have blood tests just in case

Imagine the wait to hear whether the the CPS are going to prosecute

Imagine wandering round the town wondering if people know..or if he is going to hurt you

Imagine seeing it reported in the paper or facebook and seeing all the comments

Imagine going to court and having to tell everyone there the details

Imagine the defence questioning you on sex you may have had in the past

Imagine that he is found not guilty

Imagine living the rest of your life knowing that people think you are a liar

So i would love to hear how we can help all the victims

If you admit committing an offence in writing, why the hell shouldn't she be prosecuted?
Because a prosecution has to be deemed to be in the public interest. If going through a costly trial results in a very minimal sentence and actually does the public no good, the prosecution won’t proceed. In this case she would be seen as unlikely to do it again, and with this on record, if she did the case would be handled very differently. So, if men would be protected from false allegations by her without her having to do a prison sentence, what’s the point in her being tried?