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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not automatically support my male friend (potentially triggering!)

383 replies

User14356 · 10/01/2018 02:21

Agh this is keeping me up tonight, sorry if it’s a bit rambly

My very close, male friend (totally platonic) picked up a woman last weekend at a club. I had left earlier in the night, from what I was told, they were drunk, she had a screaming argument with her friend and then he took her home. Things were done but they didn’t have full sex.

Cut to today and I get a worried message from my male friend saying he has been contacted by this girl saying he took advantage, he is a sex offender and that she’s going to go to the police. This text message was sent at 4am and badly spelled so the assumption is that she was drunk.

I want to believe my friend, but I’m now massively morally split, between not wanting to call this girl a liar, but then not being there for him if the accusations are blown out or false. For now, I’ve been supportive. Is there any way to manage this situation without taking sides- AIBU to have doubts about my friend?

OP posts:

swingingSixties · 10/01/2018 02:23

Yes, you take the side of the innocent (until proven guilty).

AssassinatedBeauty · 10/01/2018 02:39

It's not black and white. You don't have to call the woman a liar - you don't know what actually happened, so you can't know either way. You can support your friend through any investigation without having to give your opinion on what happened.

I know that I would believe a friend of mine if she said she had been sexually assaulted whilst drunk by a man she'd only met that night who took her home. I can see why you're doubting your male friend. That doesn't need to stop you supporting him though, if that's what you want to do.

TanteRose · 10/01/2018 02:47

Support your friend, and keep an open mind.

WilyMinx · 10/01/2018 02:53

If I did not know this girl, and the friend is as close as you say, I would steadfastly support him unless proven guilty. I would like to think none of my friends are rapists, and if there had been no previous red flags, then I would give him the benefit of doubt.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/01/2018 03:27

This woman was possibly drunk for the second time this week. She fought with her friend. Now she is fighting with and accusing a man, who helped her out. I imagine the argument was pretty severe for your friend to have taken her home.

Her emotions had just been heightened and once a person is in a state of arousal over one situation, these emotions are easily transferable.

Perhaps this woman sent all the signals out at the time and your friend received them clearly but in her state of confusion about the whole night, she now feels violated. It all sounds very chaotic. In any case, the explanation is either that your friend did take advantage of her. Or that in her state of heightened emotion, she was receptive at the time.

If your friend is normally respectful of women and you have no reason to question him, I would go with her being confused for now.

StarWarsFanatic · 10/01/2018 03:31

Only the people who were there can know what actually happened. In English law, you are innocent until proven guilty and your friend will likely need support. However, according to section 74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, consent can be defined as follows: “A person consents if he/she agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice." Someone who has been drinking may not have the capacity to consent.

I am not saying that your friend is a rapist but I am also not saying the other person is lying.

I strongly suggest talking to your friend about finding support, even if you don't feel comfortable offering it. I also suggest pointing him towards some articles, etc. regarding alcohol and consent so that he can be better informed in future. If he is such a close friend and you do doubt his guilt but don't offer him any support then your friendship may be ruined if he is innocent.

guest477337 · 10/01/2018 03:33

Support your friend until proven guilty, you don't know this women but I wouldn't call her s lier to anyone whether.

lazyminimoo · 10/01/2018 03:34

If they were both drunk then why is it he took advantage of her an not she took advantage of him,,, i say support your friend if you think he is a nice decent person as you dont know the girl who is making accusations

AssassinatedBeauty · 10/01/2018 03:38

The point is that only two people were there at the time, so only they can know what happened. There's no point anyone else speculating or deciding what must have happened.

Scrumptiousbears · 10/01/2018 03:53

Tell him to keep the text but ignore it. Sit and wait. However let this be a warning to him not to take drunk women home.

Sunnyjac · 10/01/2018 07:38

Agree with the majority, support your friend, why on earth wouldn’t you? It’s likely that if you express any doubt to him you may have to accept the ending of your friendship

Sunnyjac · 10/01/2018 07:43

Agree with the majority, support your friend, why on earth wouldn’t you? It’s likely that if you express any doubt to him you may have to accept the ending of your friendship

Snowysky20009 · 10/01/2018 07:56

What a horrible situation to be in.

Agree with pp's, you can support your friend without taking sides. You were not there, so don't know the truth. It could well hav happened- she was very drunk and he took advantage? Yet it could not be, maybe she has a bf and is now using this as an excuse? You really can not know.

So stand by your friend, offer him support, be someone he leans on and give him a listening ear.

However, don't assume the girl is lying either, (which obviously from your post you are not anyway) which you could have easily done when an accusation is made against someone close to you.

Are there any support group type things, that maybe you could point him in the direction of, that could provide advice on a situation like this?

CollyWombles · 10/01/2018 07:58

When was the text to your friend sent? From the sounds of your OP, it was in the early hours of this morning? So a good few days after the incident was supposed to have occurred.

It's hard to say what to do here. My initial thoughts are, what reason would she have to make it up?

Secondly, if your friend randomly met her that night, taking home a drunk, emotionally upset female stranger does actually sound like he took advantage of her state and she may not have been in any fit state to consent to anything they did together.

That's only my opinions based on your OP. If your male friend is as close as you say, I would sit him down face to face and ask him his version of what happened that night.

FreddieClaryHorshieLion · 10/01/2018 08:03

Support your friend but keep an open mind.

I’d think again if he was actually charged with something.

Babycham1979 · 10/01/2018 08:07

The assumption that drunk women can't consent but drunk men can is logically and morally repugnant. It infantilises women and pathologises men.

It's a nonsense that a woman can be held culpable for driving a car when drunk, but not for having sex with someone.

Your friend is innocent until proven guilty. Support him, as a real friend should.

ArcheryAnnie · 10/01/2018 08:11

if your friend randomly met her that night, taking home a drunk, emotionally upset female stranger does actually sound like he took advantage of her state and she may not have been in any fit state to consent to anything they did together

This. I understand that you want to support your friend, but even in the event that the police (and the woman he took home) don't want to take this further, you need at the very least to have a conversation with him about what constitutes consent.

AmIAWeed · 10/01/2018 08:15

In terms of keeping an open mind absolutely, only your friend and her know what happens and due to emotions/alcohol they may genuinely have different beliefs on what happened.
I would absolutely say for him NOT to reply. If he has already in panic make sure he saves every single text.
Secondly I'd suggest he find himself a solicitor now, make an appointment, tell them what has happened and her texts. That way if the police call him in for questioning or arrest him he already has someone on his side working for him and fully aware of the situation.

Finally - do you know who else was there? Were any photos taken/shared on Facebook showing them together. I know this is more 'police work' but for peace of mind I would take screenshots of anything like that to show some kind of familiarity between then prior to them leaving together. I would imagine any friends of hers as soon as she uses the word rape would delete any such images and whilst it sounds ruthless if your friend is innocent needs as much help and support as he can.
All too often it comes down to who is believed - that's why genuine victims of assault are let down so regularly, and those accused falsely have their lives turned upside down.

RebootYourEngine · 10/01/2018 08:15

I would support your friend.

It sounds like it was one of those drunken mistakes that she now regrets. If that is the case then she has no right to accuse him of anything just because she was drunk because according to the OP so was he. He could claim that she did the same to him.

RainOnATinRoof · 10/01/2018 08:16

I doubt she would have sent him that message just for the hell of it. Most likely, she really does feel that he took advantage of her.

The bottom line is that your friend was reckless in taking home this drunk woman (who was already in an emotional state presumably, from arguing with her friend), and then engaging with her sexually. Regardless of whether he is guilty of a crime in the eyes of the law, it's not stellar behaviour.

I wouldn't have much sympathy for him if it was my friend.

ReanimatedSGB · 10/01/2018 08:36

If this is the first time anything like this has happened around your friend, and neither you nor anyone else you know has ever mentioned his behaviour being creepy or inappropriate, then there is a strong possibility that he has done nothing wrong.
Support your friend, for the moment. You don't know what happened.
There is nothing inherently wrong in drunk people going home with each other, or in picking up drunks in clubs. Loads of people do it without anything non-consensual happening. (I have done it many a time without being mistreated by men because a) plenty of men are not abusive and b) abusive men plan and calculate. There is nothing spontaneous about it).

Snowysky20009 · 10/01/2018 08:41

OP if you Google 'support for men accused of sexual assault' it beings said up some support groups that gives advice on what to do, who to contact etc.

ShatnersWig · 10/01/2018 08:43

Rain Glad I'm not your friend. They were both drunk. But only his behaviour isn't stellar?

You absolutely support your friend, OP, until a picture becomes clearer.

diddl · 10/01/2018 08:48

What was his intention by taking her home?

Also you say he "picked her up"-what do you mean by that.

I've gone further when drunk than I would have done when sober & I take full responsibility for that.

How much blame should have been put on the men? Idk as none plied me with drink or forced their way into my house.

I think now though there is a lot more emphasis on consent being given & if she was incapable of giving consent-he should just have walked away.

FreddieClaryHorshieLion · 10/01/2018 08:51

Btw, two drunk people went home and... did ‘something’ sexual. This isn’t necessarily taking advantage of the other person.
I’ve done that a few times when I was younger and I wasn’t taken advantage of. (And I didn’t take advantage of someone either, as far as I know.)
It’s a fairly standard part of going out / clubbing. (Or at least it was in ‘my days’)

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