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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that some women are naive in thinking their male friends don't want more

80 replies

yawlinhere · 09/01/2018 14:53

I have this friend, she is classically attractive, tall, blonde, legs to here etc etc.

She always says she has lots of male friends more than female as she just gets on with them better. And they all text her a lot, and occasionally stray into flirty messages (she is married, they are married).

Does she not understand they are all just keeping in touch in the hope they'll get into her panties? Or is that me having a sweeping generalisation view?

They all stray into flirting, when she split up with her ex-husband, suddenly loads of them started texting and calling. I was not shocked lol.

So are they "friends" or are they "lechers" (or does it matter?)

OP posts:
ChiaraRimini · 09/01/2018 16:33

So in answer to the OP: yes quite possibly her male friends would say yes to a shag if one was on offer; but that doesn't mean they don't also want to be friends with her as well.

g1itterati · 09/01/2018 16:34

I'm inclined to agree with you OP, based on my own experience. Through uni or when I was working, it was very difficult for me to maintain male friendships on a 100% platonic level. I was always aware (whether I wanted to admit it to myself or not), that there could potentially be more to it. Most "friendships" inevitably escalated into an "all or nothing" situation, whether I saw it coming or not. Even if I wasn't attracted to them at all, I worried that there might be something from their side and then I worried about not giving off clear boundaries. Particularly since I've been with DH, I felt uncomfortable having male friends on a one-to-one level. Of course, I get on well with men, but I prefer it if they're someone else's husband! I'm not interested in male sports or the pub (not implying all men are btw) and in general just find it less stressful and far more natural to have female friends. There is never that "uncomfortable vibe" then.

tigerrun · 09/01/2018 16:35

A ridiculous and very tedious viewpoint. The only women I've ever met who really think men and women can't be friends, or that male friends always want more, have been bitter, jealous and obviously projecting their inability to be friends with men onto the perfectly platonic friendships around them.

Oh and 'panties', seriously, boak.

NurseButtercup · 09/01/2018 16:36

I've read some of the messages she has shown me. Believe me, they are interested in her in that way, in a big way in some cases. Is she just not seeing it, or does she secretly see it and like it?

I think you're being unfair, If she regards these men as friends then she is respecting that friendship boundary, so if she's telling you she doesn't see anything more than friendship why can't you believe that what she's saying is true?

I have several male friends and I don't fancy them and vice-versa. However, I've had similar comments made towards me and people think I'm choosing not to see their attraction towards me. Confused

lostincumbria · 09/01/2018 16:39

A quick reminder that When Harry Met Sally was written by a very talented woman, so not necessarily a trusted insight into the male psyche.

Dustbunny1900 · 09/01/2018 16:42

YANBU . I think most women are massively out of touch and naive to the way men actually view women.

Skarossinkplunger · 09/01/2018 16:47

So it’s not ok to say ‘all women are bitchy’ but fine to say ‘all men are after sex’ Dustbunny?

Rubies12345 · 09/01/2018 16:50

I suspect that when your attractive friend became single, most of the blokes who get on with her thought: great, I'll ask her out now. Quite sensible, really

But they're married themselves!

Dustbunny1900 · 09/01/2018 16:54

Not exactly what I said ska. this SOCIETY (that goes for men and women, internalized misogyny is a real bitch..per all the "I love being one of the guys!" Brags. Women striving to be more like men , never heard a guy brag about relating more to women as gal pals. I used to be terrible in that regard) doesn't view men and women as equals. There's a great quote that women really have no idea how's much men hate them..I wouldn't go that far, but I think this society teaches us that women aren't as good as men. That we exist primarily for decorative purposes, or child bearing, etc.
sorry but I don't think the majority of men deep down view women as equals to be bros with. there have also been a fair amount of studies confirming men have a harder time being "just friends" with females.
This is my experience from a lot of heart break surrounding what I thought were people who viewed me as a person/friend. I was pretty naive.

Skarossinkplunger · 09/01/2018 16:58

You clearly were naive, good job we’re not all like that eh?

Branleuse · 09/01/2018 17:11

theyre usually either Naive, or they think this kind of attention is what a friendship is, therefore when they get less special princess treatment from other women, who just want to be normal friends they dont enjoy it as much.

I used to LOVE having male friends when I was younger. They were so charming and treated me so nicely, and I could never understand why their girlfriends hated me.
Of course I can see why now. I just lapped up the attention and thought I deserved it.

Nowadays Im quite wary of male friends.

digitalDividend · 09/01/2018 17:11

Why is women bragging about "being one of the guys" internalised misogyny? Maybe they like male company. Maybe they simply can't be arsed maintaining relationships with people who have a chip on their shoulder about being 'second class citizens'.

I'd bet my house on there not being a group of men bitching about one of their friends who's classically handsome calling female friends lecherous.

I work with more men than women and am friends with more men than women (I'm not "bragging"). Life is easier in male groups. Less jealousy and bitterness.

By the way, 'internalised misogyny' is as nonsensical as 'reverse racism'.

Dustbunny1900 · 09/01/2018 17:12

Clearly many in this thread are..but this is just a general trend. Maybe Fred really does think you're his bffl.

Sparklingbrook · 09/01/2018 17:12

Female here. YABU.

And I don't think something said in a film can be relied on as good evidence of anything.

g1itterati · 09/01/2018 17:15

Skarcross - people can only speak for themselves on this. Why would you get irritated by other people's honest perspectives based on their experiences?

If DH had particular female "friends" it would irritate me tbh and I know he would feel the same the other way round. Likewise, I would feel awkward being a "friend" of a man who was in a relationship - it would feel imposing to go out with him alone. It's more hassle than it's worth for the most part and I just don't need that kind of dynamic in my life.

Regularsizedrudy · 09/01/2018 17:17

Why do you care though? Also ughhhhhhh at the ‘bitchy women’ comments. Women are fucking great, if all the women you encounter are bitchy the problem is YOU.

popcorntime1 · 09/01/2018 17:19

IME men can be bitchy too.

Enwi · 09/01/2018 17:22

My DP has almost exclusively female friends. A combination of the fact he hates sport and pubs means that he often doesn’t enjoy hanging around with male colleagues anywhere near as much as female colleagues (who generally go on days out to local zoo, theme park etc). He also was bullied pretty badly throughout high school, largely by other males, and is just more comfortable around women. As other posters have said, he’s been friends with some of these women for 10+ years and the idea he’s friends with them purely because he wants to get in their pants is ludicrous and pretty damn insulting to a lot of males out there.
We also have lots of friends who are couples, but again he would much rather meet up with the couple as a couple than the husband/boyfriend alone.

londonista · 09/01/2018 17:34

When I first met my husband, he was flat-sharing with a friend from school, who was female.
They were both just friends, it was other people that made it awkward. His mum saying "oh isn't it a bit strange, seeing each other coming in and out of bathroom" for example, when she came over. Or when they went grocery shopping together, the cashier mistakenly referring to her as "your wife" etc. I get they're easy mistakes to make, but any awkwardness about their friendship didn't come from them.

g1itterati · 09/01/2018 17:37

Enwi - that's interesting. I guess it's just about where you feel more comfortable. DH would struggle among a female group because, even when he's with his male friends, they only really talk about work, cars, sport / hobbies - it's all very on one level and they don't really talk about how they actually feel. Even better, they can do cycling or rugby and socialise without having to talk much at all Grin. I would find it very boring, but that's what they seem to prefer.

Cracker09jacker · 09/01/2018 18:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 09/01/2018 18:29

I can see that some people are sceptical about my reference to When Harry Met Sally – it’s only fiction after all. But I think one of the reasons the film has enduring appeal is that it has something real to say about relationships between men and women.

For those who prefer ‘proper’ science though, there has been research done in this area. It reveals men and women tend to have very different ideas about platonic friendships. According to an article in Scientific American.

… these studies suggest that men and women have vastly different views of what it means to be “just friends”—and that these differing views have the potential to lead to trouble. Although women seem to be genuine in their belief that opposite-sex friendships are platonic, men seem unable to turn off their desire for something more.

This finding is exactly in line with the positions adopted by Harry and Sally in the film.

It should be emphasised, however, that human beings are complex, so it is only possible to talk about statistical tendencies. Individual cases may buck the trend!

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/01/2018 18:54

"I have had traumatic experiences with people of one sex, so I find it easier to be friends with the other" = not misogyny.

"Women are bitches" = misogyny.

Makehaywhilstthesunshines · 09/01/2018 19:12

Well OP, I’m with you I’m afraid. I have never had a male ‘friend’ not try it on with me at some point. Sometimes the friendship would go for years before they made a play/ got overtly flirty/ suggestive, other times it was obvious fairly instantly and they never tried to hide the fact.

I have to say though that I have got on fantastically with all of these men, they have all had fantastic personalities and literally make me cry laughing so I think we’d have been friends anyway, without any attraction on their part (and in one instance, where it was reciprocated by me too!)

EdinaMonsoon · 09/01/2018 19:14

Two thoughts OP: Firstly, I think it odd that you make such a strong reference to your friend's physical appearance. I don't see what bearing that has on anything. Or do you think people who are not "classically attractive" do less flirting?

Secondly: Are you actually the Ex-H rather than a friend? Because it reads that way to me. Your post has an undertone of "look at her, who does she think she is? Acting all innocent when she knows full well what she's doing?"

Assuming I am wrong on the exH/Friend issue:

I think it is perfectly possible for men & women to be friends. However, none of my male friends would ever send me a flirty or inappropriate message, nor say it to my face, because they are my friend not a prospective partner or someone waiting in the wings on the off-chance that I may split up with my husband or be tempted to have an affair.

If your friend is receiving flirty messages from men then that completely crosses the boundary of friendship into something altogether different IMO. I think it is natural enough to see a male friend as being good looking or even, on some level, fancy them but absolutely not okay to cross that line. I think your friend has been incredibly disrespectful towards er ex-H and is being totally disingenuous when she says she is oblivious to the connotations of exchanging flirty messages.