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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

999 replies

BornInSydneyy · 08/01/2018 21:12

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Gilead · 10/01/2018 14:04

Flowers ToffeeUp

One wonders why the determination to derail from some quarters. It's interesting. Fear? Or just a determination to perceived as superior? Odd, most odd...

Zarathrustra · 10/01/2018 14:26

no wonder you're overwrought Gilead - reading 'determination to derail', 'fear' and 'determination to perceived as superior' from others disagreeing with you.

Still, you've survived the trauma, so not all bad.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/01/2018 16:00

gilead

Sometimes i think people derail to get the conversation on more comfortable ground for them

Either because they dont like the subject matter or want to move to their 'area of expertise '

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/01/2018 16:01

Or both I suppose

Ghanagirl · 10/01/2018 17:05

BigBaboonBum
You have black friends really?
I’m black and grew hearing racist comments as a child that have never left me including the Monkey insults.
It’s easy to say things online with no grounding in truth.
If I was to give you the benefit of the doubt maybe you’re “black friends” are terrified of speaking up.
I was as a child.

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 17:26

Yesterday 01:17Julie8008

I suppose it would be racist to take a black family to the zoo where any monkeys are kept. Would it also be racist to take a white family to the zoo where snow leopards are kept?

What is the world coming to when anything that can be construed to be offensive by anyone ever should be banned. Shouldn't Mumsnet be banned because it is sexist and therefore offensive to men.

FFS, stop the world I want to get off."

Wondered how long it'd be before a 'stop the world I want to get off' comment 😂 because living in a world where racism is discussed openly and attempted to be tackled is such an awful thing for a white person to deal with.

Is there a term for these type of comments that try SO hard to be progressive by denying that they ever notice racism? And believe that if you point out or notice racism it means you therefore are one? It's so backwards it's come full circle.

I am white. I rarely get racist abuse. In fact, I don't think I ever have. I live in England. My beautiful partner is Asian. When we're together I notice stares, I hear comments. I see people stare at him, or ignore him when he offers to help them with their shopping. I noticed an incident a few months ago when he walked past a flustered mum with a young child on the train platform and heard her ask a passerby where platform 2 was. The passerby didn't know, my boyfriend did, so he said to her 'it's over there'. She blanked him and he repeated it. She sneered 'I don't talk to your kind'.

I notice these things, the things that I NEVER SEE BECAUSE THEY'RE NEVER DIRECTED AT ME that I only notice when I'm out with my partner who has brown skin. Am I racist for noticing these things then? Am I the racist for assuming people are staring because they think they recognise him from somewhere or for not thinking the best of that bitch on the platform (maybe 'your kind' means I dunno... men?)? Am I racist when instead of thinking other white people are nudging each other and whispering staring at us because they think we're stunningly attractive, I recognise they're taken aback at best, bigoted at worst, by seeing us together in our very white town?

No. Those of you who respond with 'you're the racist for equating a black child with a monkey' know very well, full well, that your argument makes no sense. You're not magically non racist because you lie and pretend you never notice any racist abuse happening around you or on the news. Michelle Obama was called 'an ape in heels' by a government official maybe a year or two ago. You must have missed that.

Pretending to be colour blind doesn't solve racism. It doesn't make us white people good allies to pretend it doesn't exist. It flourishes in the dark. It's the equivalent of a black child coming home from school in tears saying they were called a monkey and had ape noises made at them and you smiling brightly safe in your socially acceptable white skin saying 'no they didn't dear! That didn't happen, you're lying!' or saying 'oh they were just saying you're lovely and funny like a monkey!'. You should all be sickened with yourselves. Absolutely sickened.

For what it's worth I don't think the ad was particularly racist, not intentionally. It was ill informed and unfortunate, if a true accident. In some ways it seems to show how far society has come that that link between black child, monkey and racist abuse isn't immediately at the forefront of their minds. But it's absolutely understandable that it's offensive to those who've dealt with being called this or hearing loved ones called this, and for H&M to pull it. Hopefully it was an error. But those of you who think that this incident and the furore around it has suddenly taught loads of naive closet racists a new term of abuse are ridiculous. I think the furore from all ethnicities shows that we, whether black individuals or their allies, don't think this is acceptable and won't let it slide, which is much more powerful.

Racism doesn't go away by pretending it doesn't exist. Seriously horrified by some of the faux naive wide eyed 'you're the racist for even thinking that!' comments, while being simultaneously not that surprised to see so many people doing their best to cover it up and shift the blame to those who care to silence them.

Finally, yes we're all entitled to an opinion on racism and sexism and homophobia whatever our circumstances. But you really gonna act like as a white person in England you know better what is and isn't racist than a black persons who has dealt with it their whole life? Seriously? Sit down and shut the fuck up, open your ears and stop falling over yourself to prove how cool and colour blind you are and you might learn something and develop some humility.

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 17:29

"Is it because it's a black boy wearing it in this case? Would it be OK if the model was white?"

I love the fact some posters can make it to page 23 in a huge thread with lots of different views about this issue and racism as a whole and all they can manage is to spit out this basic, non argument they probably read in the sun, that was addressed ages ago by many more smarter posters than her. It's almost like the poster is trying to stir the pot rather than actually learn or debate 🤔

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 17:41

"Yesterday 20:12 Rosewatersoap

I think that some people on this thread just have no understanding of how media including advertising operates in the public sphere. They don't understand that images and words are symbols used to create public narratives and that language including signs e.g. words and pictures always exist and are read in a wider social, political and cultural context. These posters don't understand the media sphere and mass communication at all and that is due to a lack of education in this topic.

I wish they introduced serious media studies and theory to the national curriculum."

This is an excellent point and I think goes some way towards explaining just why there have been so many disgusting comments on this thread. With a complex topic such as racism I guess it's like expecting actual monkeys to be able to digest and analyse Dostoyevsky for some posters. No offence intended to monkeys or Dostoyevsky.

Still doesn't excuse people wilfully ignoring the experiences of PoC posting on this thread and assuming their ill informed view is the only one that matters.

Since when did it become something to be celebrated and taken pride in to be so incredibly stupid, closed minded and uninformed about the world?

Zarathrustra · 10/01/2018 17:41

‘Twas a question, not an argument. No need to get yer knickers in a twist.

StripySocksAndDocs · 10/01/2018 17:59

Thumbs up to LemonShark

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 18:02

Cheers StripySocksAndDocs. I know the thread will shortly die but it needs saying. Not been on MN very long but after this thread if this is representative of the general readership I'm not sure I want to remain.

usedtogotomars · 10/01/2018 18:06

Stay, lemon please

I want to read more from you.

DivisionBelle · 10/01/2018 18:10

“The 'apology' means bugger all. The ad has done it's job. Someone at H&M is sitting at their desk laughing their arse off.”

Well let them laugh. Every young person my DC’s mix with, across 2 S London schools, who are the target market for the H&M which opened in Brixton, are outraged contemptuous and say they won’t shop there or be seen wearing H&M again! It has made the brand unwearable, for them.

This is mostly black and mixed race kids . With ‘woke’ mums who are angry.

StripySocksAndDocs · 10/01/2018 18:16

There are many who don't think like that @LemonShark but if you leave that's one less!! So, yes, stay!!

PortiaCastis · 10/01/2018 18:19

We don't have H&M in this backwater and haven't really bought from them online but I will not give them my money now.

ToffeeUp · 10/01/2018 18:27

But lemon, monkeys are ah so cute and I call my toddler cheeky monkey all the time. (sorry quencher) Grin

Seriously though, good posts!

PonderWoman · 10/01/2018 18:32

Wonderful posts by LemonShark. Much appreciated and refreshing on this thread Smile

Gilead · 10/01/2018 18:34

Flowers Lemon.

MsJuniper · 10/01/2018 19:10

Hear hear Lemon. When you think of footballers having bananas thrown at them or comments made about Michelle Obama and Dianne Abbott, I don't know how anyone can shut their eyes and ears to the possibility that this t shirt slogan is damaging and wrong.

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 19:15

Thanks everyone so much for the support! We mustn't let the hate drown out the compassion 💛 Glad we could (almost) end the thread this way!

trib.al/VLo1HJZ

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 19:17

I call kids that too ToffeeUp! It's fascinating how many people think that because they call kids cheeky monkey, racism only exists in the minds of those who 'keep pointing it out' 😂

Lndnmummy · 10/01/2018 19:18

Lemon “
Pretending to be colour blind doesn't solve racism. It doesn't make us white people good allies to pretend it doesn't exist. It flourishes in the dark. It's the equivalent of a black child coming home from school in tears saying they were called a monkey and had ape noises made at them and you smiling brightly safe in your socially acceptable white skin saying 'no they didn't dear! That didn't happen, you're lying!' or saying 'oh they were just saying you're lovely and funny like a monkey!'. You should all be sickened with yourselves. Absolutely sickened.”

Exactly this

LemonShark · 10/01/2018 19:32

One thing I've noticed being in a relationship with my OH is how chill and casual his whole family are re talking about race, was a bit of a culture shock to me at first being brought up kinda thinking that to mention it is to highlight it. But I've realised his family (British born Indian Sikh) are so open mentioning it often because they have to be. They have no choice, when racist incidents happen on the reg. when they're held up at the airport to be searched extra while other white people go through. When his mum has had a tough day and been called a 'p*ki' at the shop she owns. When his sister was shouted at for being Muslim (she isnt even Muslim). So it's just a really open topic that is no big deal. That's taught me a lot about how it's fine and a good thing to discuss race and racism when it is relevant instead of pretending nobody differs in skin tone and everyone is treated the same, when we're not. I'm still learning and it's not his job to teach me but it's impossible not to consider race when you're subjected to racism, or witness it as the partner of someone who does. I feel a lot of the 'colour blind PP' must have very few friends or family who aren't white.

CherryMaDeara · 10/01/2018 19:33

Woo, last point! The ad was racially insensitive. End of.

I always wanted to say end of.

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