Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

999 replies

BornInSydneyy · 08/01/2018 21:12

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
MaisyPops · 10/01/2018 07:03

Maisy, I can argue that the white cone like hood is not intrinsically racist. It is just a hat/hood that the KKK love wearing.
It's a uniform of a racist organisations. So nothing like an item of children's clothing.

I can also argue that the golly is just a lovable doll and not intrinsically racist. I don't see the exaggerated features because my head doesnt think like that
Again, an item routed in a different era and not comparable to a children's top.

I can argue that the swastika is ancient symbol and not intrinsically racist.
It has become associated with the Nazis and the Holocaust. Again, not comparable with a children's top.

The advert was bad. I get that. I accept that. It was a completely stupid and racially insensitive advert.
What I don't get is that a top having any reference to a monkey in a jungle is racist therefore (according to some on this thread) shouldn't be stocked at all for anyone to by.
Yes, monkey has been used as an insult. But that doesn't mean any reference ro monkeys is an issue. Now we've got people saying 'oh it's fine to continue saying things like cheeky monkey, but the top itself is still racist'. The top is not racist. It is a stupid slogan top and I'm not a fan of others in thr line either. But the issue is with the advert, not the top.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/01/2018 08:04

There are very very few people saying that the top in of itself is racist

In fact i still dont think that there is anyone on this thread (big thread) that has said that

I had someone categorically tell me that nowadays you can't sing Baa Baa black sheep. I thought that people believing in this shit was made up but this person absolutely believed it, reminding me a bit of the cheeky monkey phrase Smile

BertrandRussell · 10/01/2018 08:21

It was such a relief to be able to say Merry Christmas again after it's been banned for so long......

LittleLionMansMummy · 10/01/2018 08:25

I remember being horrified, even at the age of around 11 - 28 years ago - when I heard a particularly nasty variation of this slogan shouted at a black child I was friends with. So for me, I couldn't look at this slogan without thinking 'what the fuck were they even thinking of?!' I'm pretty certain it was not intentional, but the fact that nobody - in the no doubt huge chain of people who put this together and approved it - even considered how it would be perceived is beyond belief. If you don't know that black people have had to endure similar terms thrown at them for decades, and may therefore object to a black child modelling that particular slogan, then I don't know where you've been living.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 10/01/2018 08:25

bertrand Grin

There was a thread this Christmas saying that the OP couldnt find any Merry Christmas cards

I was sat there looking at my cards thinking 'you're obviously shopping in the wrong place love' Grin

Lizzie48 · 10/01/2018 08:30

*There was a thread this Christmas saying that the OP couldnt find any Merry Christmas cards

I was sat there looking at my cards thinking 'you're obviously shopping in the wrong place love'*

This made me laugh. We had plenty of those too. Grin

FaceOddity · 10/01/2018 08:34

The top in on its own in isolation isn't racist. I can understand why some people would be offended by it though I don't fall into that category.

It's people who are racist. A small minority of people. If we can change that attitude then we've cracked it.

Lizzie48 · 10/01/2018 09:20

I was talking to my DH about this (he works for the Council and is a union rep). The advert in itself wouldn't have been created with the intention of causing offence. Whoever created it probably didn't notice that they had clicked on the photo of a black child. But because it's a black child and there is a history of racists using the word monkey in a pejorative way, it has become offensive. It's part of institutional racism in this country.

Laiste · 10/01/2018 09:49

2 hours to read whole thread!

I'm white. I grew up in west London in the 70s/80s. I saw the ad and I saw the problem with it immediately.

We're not at the point where this doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter, and i hope it's not too long before it doesn't, but at the moment it matters a lot.

Those affected are not making it matter - the word is still being used as an insult against POC every day somewhere in this country and they are making it matter.

Personally i think the ad was deliberate.

  1. to gain air space or
  2. ignoring the historical sub text as some kind of 'how right on are H&M?' statement.

Or both.
I mean if 2) didn't work then 1) sure would.

The 'apology' means bugger all. The ad has done it's job. Someone at H&M is sitting at their desk laughing their arse off.

PonderWoman · 10/01/2018 10:01

Maisy, with the negative publicity associated with that top, which parent in their right mind would want that top? A black parent is not going to touch that top, even if the reference doesn't bother them, it is crystal clear that it will bother many many others now.

As stated already, h&m didnt do this to be deliberately racist, but now they know how it has come across, they have taken the ad down. In the same vein, a parent may not previously have given this top a second thought, but now that you know the upset it has caused, why would anyone wear it out of insistence that the top itself isn't inherently racist.

It is hard to describe the offence as there is no equivalent racial slur against white people that has historically demeaning, degrading and dehumansing connotations.

White people enslaved black people and owned them as property. they held Asian and black people in zoos for white people to look at and poke and jibe. They lined them up next to animals and then posed for photos with them. They labelled us savages, monkeys, darwin's missing link. So now we have been promoted to the 'coolest' monkey in the jungle because white man has decided to put a black kid in that top. White man says we are still a monkey, still from the jungle, but hey, we are now cool. Such an honour bestowed by our white masters. Apparently, we are supposed to celebrate that because white people have no problem calling their children 'cheeky monkey'. That is NOT what the top says. The hurt runs deep.

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:04

No

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:06

I’m white but my black friends don’t see the problem either, they think it’s cute. Everyone I’ve seen who has an issue with it is white, which is super weird. It’s a sad day if black kids can’t wear cute tops because white people have white people guilt and quickly see something racist and go all fake social justice warrior. Not having any of it.

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:08

And as for the PP, it was actually black people that enslaved black people - white people bought them, as did black people. But I suppose that doesn’t suit the mood for your post?
Instead of recalling history, why not just not be racist anymore? It’s about equality, not punishment

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:12

Also*

BertrandRussell · 10/01/2018 10:17

"I’m white but my black friends don’t see the problem either,"

All your black friends,eh? Grin

Bimbler · 10/01/2018 10:18

I bet some of her best friends are black...

CherryMaDeara · 10/01/2018 10:19

PonderWoman

They lined them up next to animals and then posed for photos with them. They labelled us savages, monkeys, darwin's missing link. So now we have been promoted to the 'coolest' monkey in the jungle because white man has decided to put a black kid in that top. White man says we are still a monkey, still from the jungle, but hey, we are now cool. Such an honour bestowed by our white masters. Apparently, we are supposed to celebrate that because white people have no problem calling their children 'cheeky monkey'. That is NOT what the top says. The hurt runs deep

This is extremely well articulated and so true. So good to have intelligent people on the thread.

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:19

@BertrandRussel they were quite vocal about the fact another ridiculous white-led “outrage” has occurred in the name of racism

Gilead · 10/01/2018 10:20

BigBaboonBum
Intersting name...

Perhaps if your black friends children came home from school crying because they'd been called monkey, again, day after day, for years on end, they would see the problem. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to reconsider too. It's not just about you and your friends, there is a wider issue here. It's called Racism.

Gilead · 10/01/2018 10:20

Interesting.

ToffeeUp · 10/01/2018 10:23

At least baboon didn't mention cheeky monkey.. clutches at straws

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:23

Gilead - maybe if we raise our children to be equals instead of seeing people differently and making such huge waves and divisions in how we treat people then there would be less racism?
There is a massive difference between parents calling kids their little monkeys and some racist shitty kids calling people monkeys

Bimbler - And my best friend since high school is black. So? Hmm

downthestrada · 10/01/2018 10:23

BigBaboon but there’s black people on this very thread who have a problem with it, along with black people on Twitter including famous black people, black footballers, black musicians.

It’s very easy to dismiss all these black people because a few black people you know don’t have an issue. It’s a very convenient way of tidying things up in the mind - no issue, nothing to see here.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 10/01/2018 10:25

It was actually black people that enslaved black people - white people bought them, as did black people. But I suppose that doesn’t suit the mood for your post?

That's an incredibly misleading thing to say.

BigBaboonBum · 10/01/2018 10:27

Downthestrada - who dismissed them? Oh I’m sorry, are we not allowed to give opinions because other people have opinions that mean more than mine?
That’s where I’ve gone wrong.
I apologise, enjoy your one opinion thread. Great way to solve racism, should have thought about this earlier