Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

[BornInSydneyy]

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

@Rufus and @cherry I completely stand corrected the white boys wearing a totally different slogan, I had misunderstood an earlier post.

No worries, easily done.

Cherry - I appreciate that the quote isn’t about cheeky monkey, I think I’m just expressing that when I saw the top / slogan that was my first thought when applied to children. Not a racial connotation. I’m not saying that for others who have experienced this as a racial term or being around this as a form of racism they wouldn’t see it differently. In my experience I genuinely wouldnt have had race as a first thought here. But we are all posting from different nationality’s, countries and parts of countries even and some terms like this might be more obviously offensive to some that others. The question on the original post was what our view was.

I see your point to an extent, but I live in the UK, and I know this would be offensive to many black people. Given the context and history of black people being compared to apes and monkeys, the t-shirt should be offensive to everyone. When people stop doing monkey chants and jungle jokes, and everyone forgets that black were called monkeys, then it maybe fine to sell 'the coolest monkey in the jungle' hoodies.

Third point seriously? In practice I am unlikely to make a random comment about DD’s friend unless he is caught up doing something with her, but I know that’s not what you are asking. I honestly wouldn’t consider his colour when I talk to him - I just see him and respond to him like all the other little ones at play group. Two of the other children are Portuguese and I don’t treat them or talk to them any differently either - why would I? So in answer to the question I think you are asking I wouldn’t see his colour first and change how I behaved, no. And as my DD is the only girl of the group if you were a mum there (and this was a thread about sexism rather than racism) I wouldn’t want you to see her as female first and treat her differently. There are people who have posted on here who have said that is how they would want their children to be treated.

Noted, I believe you.

I’ve recently moved from an area where I was in the minority racially. If my little one had gone to the local school she would have been in classes where she was in the minority to be white skinned of course no issue with this. I was required to relocate for work and we are now in a less ethnically diverse area. Would you suggest that if She was in the aforementioned class that teachers should need to avoid using certain terms for her that they used for other children because she was a different skin colour? (Im really just asking not goading) because some posters on here are saying that the history behind some terms make them completely inappropriate to ever be made in relation to a POC. Completely respect that, noted. But other people are saying that actually we shouldn’t still be linking these terms to race and that shouldn’t be a first thought when seeing this child in this top. So it’s hard to see if the message is move away from colour differences being a first thought or put colour centre stage and see and respond to that first.

As white people are the majority, I don't think there are well known words to describe white people? Can you give some examples?

He's lively and wriggly. I've one friend who describes her wriggly baby as a worm or a bean (I don't get the bean one mind!). The meaning does not extend beyond that baby. Are people deliberately being obtuse. The monkey being used on any black person applies to all black people. Not just that one person. That is how racism works. The word/slur is bigger than the person. It encompasses everyone who is of that race. When you are racist to one black person, you have intentionally or intentionally abused every black person or the person within that race. How can people not get this.

It's nothing to do with that one baby whose mummy things wriggle like a worm. That word means nothing to other mums who see their children differently.
With racism it's a collective slur for everyone whin that race ffs

Ghanagirl

Still no comment from Mumsnet HQ
Speaks volumes when thier now quick to delete threads it’s official Mumsnet is happy to support racists as long as they are mostly middle class women!!

Yeh, ‘cause expecting others to be at your beck and call doesn’t make you seem at all privileged (and middle class)

Posters who expect others to to respond with ‘yes you are right - end ignorance discussion’ clearly have difficulty with the concept of a discussion board

^end of discussion

Looking at the ad I wouldn't have made that connection in my head at all.....it just wouldn't have entered my head.

GhanaGirl, ignore zara. She is attention seeking and trying very hard to derail the thread. Apparently she is very privileged to work with sri lankan kids and feels privileged and also mixes their names up and us privileged not to get the sack because she thinks all BAME look the same and she also volunteers in MH and is very helpful and she feels privileged and she thinks that everyone is shouty and she is privileged to point that out and she knows better and she is privileged to tell us that etc etc etc

Zara, still not answering my question, but adding more of your own I see. Why won't you answer?

May I ask, has MN always been this bad? It's always been a bit dodgy on racism, which I always found out of keeping with the erudite feminist analysis, but I thought it was better than this. Yes it has. Nothing new. Sometimes worse. The most vulgar ones get deleted. Actually quite a lot.

New year resolution was not to talk about racism on Mn. I have failed, yesterday it got me.

I thought Zara was male

CherryMaDeara

Zara, still not answering my question, but adding more of your own I see. Why won't you answer?

Er would you care to answer my question to you from some tome earlier?

You’re hysterical ponder. On many levels.

You never answered me, I asked you hours ago? Twice.

Zara, i know a GF when I see one.

It was mixed up in all your other stuff. Remind me of your pressing question Cherry

Er, where did I say I volunteer in MH ponder. Don’t make stuff up, it doesn’t reflect well.

Go back and re-read. It's my bedtime, I don't have the time or energy to retype.

Ah I was asked if I thought I was being insensitive. I don’t. I suppose with that issue resolved you can sleep well cherry

Perhaps you might also reflect on the hypocrisy of your politics

The righteous crusaders against racism'?

*Those primitive savages that we are. How dare we protest. How dare we not move on and talk about something more important like how often everyone washes their towels.

Er, no one on here has called - or insuniated - that black people are ‘primitive savages’.*

Please stop being dishonest (and, er, shouty)* subconscious bias, they used "shouty" without thinking of the connotation. The person above explained it 😂
How you use words matter. On a thread like this they can connect without you knowing. Someone who knows the experience can connect the two and make the above statement.

Can you repost that quencher. It’s hard to follow your train of thought on that post.

Are people deliberately being obtuse

Yes.

First post. The righteous crusaders against racism'?
*
Those primitive savages that we are. How dare we protest. How dare we not move on and talk about something more important like how often everyone washes their towels.*

Second posted responding to the first. Er, no one on here has called - or insuniated - that black people are ‘primitive savages’.
Please stop being dishonest (and, er, shouty)*

subconscious bias, they used "shouty" without thinking of the connotation. The person above explained it 😂
How you use words matter. On a thread like this they can connect without you knowing. Someone who knows the experience can connect the two and make the above statement, ie first post.

Quencher, what do we POC know? We need the white saviour to come and save us from ourselves. They tried to strip us of our identity. They dehumanise us and then are perturbed by our 'rebellion'. We raise a point only for it to be ridiculed, belittled, mocked, just so we can be put back in our place.

I bet the goady ones wouldn't dare say the stuff IRL to our faces they so valiantly write hidden behind their keyboards. It's sheer cowardice.

Yes it’s racist