Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

[BornInSydneyy]

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

doenthestrada

If you work out whats going on do please pm me

Thanks

So H&M have acknowledged their error, apologised and removed the item.

It’s almost as if people make mistakes in the real world.

Sorry downthestrada

I didnt refresh and its been 'explained' now

Zara nice try but I'm laughing at people not RTFT. Even if the read the first page it would be better. i have typed 'it's not about cheeky money or little monkey' too many times.

PonderWoman
And this is where I feel like it goes one step too far.

A silly slogan top with an animal on for a child is not intrinstically racist.
Whether someone has experienced racist monkey chants doesn't change the fact that a monkey top is not racist in itself. It's a top with a monkey on it. People can choose to buy it or not in the same way they cam choose to buy silly 'heartbreaker' and 'mummy's rebel' tops for boys and 'i'd rather be shopping' tops for girls.

The advert was poorly considered, raciaĺly insensitive and it's right to call them out for it, but going a step further and suggesting thr top in itself is intrinsically a problem seems a bit much. Or would it be racist for a white freckly ginger child to wear it?

I’ve read the explanation but still not making the connection!

Zara Just because H&M have taken some sort of action doesn’t mean that it can’t be discussed anymore. It’s interesting that it most likely crossed many staff screens and yet the advert was still used.

It’s like when people say, well the conservatives are in power, so deal with it and stop moaning. Current affairs are ongoing and should be discussed.

Were people saying this?
Yes.
The hoodie should be withdrawn from sale for everyone.

down

Well me neither..

But i thought it was just me

cherry

The comment you found so amusing was someone saying it’s not difficult to read.

You do know that for many reading is difficult - eg those with LD/dyslexia/certain MH difficulties? Are they owed less sensitivity than yourself?

Incidentally, prior to working in early years I worked for a MH charity, working with people who needed support with their correspondence, (and who had to put up with shouty demanding types like yourself).

Seriously love, check your own privilege .

Maisy I don’t think the top had a monkey on it. The physical top is not racist but the advert was. That’s what we are discussing isn’t it?

Maisy must have missed that. My bad. Although I suppose it makes sense to remove it. Who wants to buy it now? I wouldn’t put my child in it anyway for fear of drawing racist attention.

If my anecdote about inadvertently touching upon the racist trope that BAME people all look the same isn’t understood by certain posters, then I wonder what else they struggle with understanding.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I had only read the first few pages before I posted her and seem to have joined at a hugely heated point.

@Rufus and @cherry I completely stand corrected the white boy is wearing a totally different slogan, I had misunderstood an earlier post.

Cherry - I appreciate that the quote isn’t about cheeky monkey, I think I’m just expressing that when I saw the top / slogan that was my first thought when applied to children. Not a racial connotation. I’m not saying that for others who have experienced this as a racial term or being around this as a form of racism they wouldn’t see it differently. In my experience I genuinely wouldnt have had race as a first thought here. But we are all posting from different nationality’s, countries and parts of countries even and some terms like this might be more obviously offensive to some that others. The question on the original post was what our view was.

Your second point I have noted.

Third point seriously? In practice I am unlikely to make a random comment about DD’s friend unless he is caught up doing something with her, but I know that’s not what you are asking. I honestly wouldn’t consider his colour when I talk to him - I just see him and respond to him like all the other little ones at play group. Two of the other children are Portuguese and I don’t treat them or talk to them any differently either - why would I? So in answer to the question I think you are asking I wouldn’t see his colour first and change how I behaved, no. And as my DD is the only girl of the group if you were a mum there (and this was a thread about sexism rather than racism) I wouldn’t want you to see her as female first and treat her differently. There are people who have posted on here who have said that is how they would want their children to be treated.

I’ve recently moved from an area where I was in the minority racially. If my little one had gone to the local school she would have been in classes where she was in the minority to be white skinned of course no issue with this. I was required to relocate for work and we are now in a less ethnically diverse area. Would you suggest that if She was in the aforementioned class that teachers should need to avoid using certain terms for her that they used for other children because she was a different skin colour? (Im really just asking not goading) because some posters on here are saying that the history behind some terms make them completely inappropriate to ever be made in relation to a POC. Completely respect that, noted. But other people are saying that actually we shouldn’t still be linking these terms to race and that shouldn’t be a first thought when seeing this child in this top. So it’s hard to see if the message is move away from colour differences being a first thought or put colour centre stage and see and respond to that first.

Quantum physics

And why a post on an internet forum is shouty

And i dont really understand why people think that Boris Johnson is funny

I think thats it

An apology is standard damage limitation.

You do know that for many reading is difficult - eg those with LD/dyslexia/certain MH difficulties? Are they owed less sensitivity than yourself?

My comment was related to people not reading the RTFT.

I also posted to you upthread about you not reading burlish 's post properly or deliberately misrepresenting her when you said she was not able to distinguish between deliberate racism and racially insensitive ads. She had clearly said the ad was 'racially insensitive'. So were you not beig insensitive to burlish?

Maisy, I can argue that the white cone like hood is not intrinsically racist. It is just a hat/hood that the KKK love wearing.

I can also argue that the golly is just a lovable doll and not intrinsically racist. I don't see the exaggerated features because my head doesnt think like that

I can argue that the swastika is ancient symbol and not intrinsically racist.

Its all BS though.

When I first read about this I couldn't understand how H&M could possibly have allowed this to happen. Surely people can't be that ignorant, I thought.

Then I read this thread.

*cherryda’

It’s your politics that assert notions of sensitivity and (checking one’s) privilege, not mine.

Do you think comments like ‘reading’s not difficult’ betray a privilege, and a lack of sensitivity towards people who do find reading difficult?

April229
Please at least be informed before you post and look at the advert the children were both wearing hoodies but with vastly different logos

Zara, I understand very clearly what you have been saying.

I don’t think I’ve ever been more disappointed, and distressed, by a MN thread. Jesus.
I’m basically with Ponder Woman all the way (as far as I can tell, I couldn’t bear to wade through the entirety of the excrement).

I sort of think the people who make that connection to racism are a bit racist actually. Or maybe they have come across it so much that it does not take Einstein to work it out.

I just saw a cute boy in a cute jumper.
-If the hoody only had the picture of monkey (probably most people would not think twice about racism)
-If the hoody didn't refer to oneself as the coolest monkey (people would not have an issue)
-among the three boys,they didn't have to give him the monkey hoody.
-If it had cheeky monkey in a playful way. people would not have had an issue with it.
-If all the three boys where wearing the same hoody, people would not have an issue
-And for me, if the other boy was not given the explorer expert and the giraffe (which I think it's a more Subtle racist dig at black people) people would not have an issue.

So can people please shut up with the cheeky monkey being the term of endearment because that is not the issue.

PonderWoman

I can argue that the swastika is ancient symbol and not intrinsically racist. It would be bullshit

Indeed, much like the claim that references to exploitative (fat) Jews from north London.

Seems quite ok for vocal ‘anti-racist’ campaigners like reggie Yates and Kelechni Okafor though.

antisemitism.uk/actress-and-fitness-studio-owner-kelechi-okafor-claims-reggie-yates-comments-about-jews-were-the-truth/

Still no comment from Mumsnet HQ
Speaks volumes when thier now quick to delete threads it’s official Mumsnet is happy to support racists as long as they are mostly middle class women!!