To think we should all just pay 1-2% income tax to help fix the nhs

[Ieatcake]

Lots of health professionals are saying it's like a third world country. We need more beds and more money for socialcare. Not many would even notice a tiny tax rise and it would help fix it ASAP.

Rosetti......I did say extreme weather would be on the news but think of the weather reporters salaries and clothing budgets and filming and studios etc across each region of the country.

To be fair, you did .

But all those things you describe ... are they paid for out of public finances ?

Graphista: a doctor who emigrates is not likely to be troubled by being sued here, and governments suing their own citizens in a foreign court does not often turn out well. Remember Spycatcher.

In any event being trained at public expense does not make you a serf and nor should it. What you suggest would be particularly hard on women doctors whose reproductive years are shorter than men's.

Does anyone remember the 80s, when a lot of UK trained nurses emigrated because they could get a lot more abroad (especially in the US). There used to be companies that recruited directly from hospitals.

(If people want to know what happened, there was quite an outcry at how meagre the wages for a nurse were, so the Tories stepped in and funded ... an advertising campaign)

I still think it's wrong to get very subsidised training for a professional career at state expense and not repay the favour.

Rossetti I remember that. Shame more our age have forgotten so much of what went on.

If you are aware of uk taxing system we already pay into the NHS. The real money that would make a difference would be from those 10% of the population that own 90% of its wealth! However they do not pay NH contributions because their tax assets are offshore or they only are in the country for 5 months of the year so they are exempted.

That is if as someone just said the money went directly to the NHS but it does not it goes to the central fund who pays the senior executives 100% pay rises whilst the ground floor/front line staff are awarded only 1 - 1.5% each year. It is disheartening to learn that whilst young interns are pulling double and triple shifts alongside their nursing aids. The Central fund who holds the purse strings uses a year of their salary as pocket change. Or for the next bottle of champers for the Social Parties. Wine it seems is more valuable than saving lives.

As a nurse,I’m not sure whether it would help fix it especially whilst Jeremy is still in charge. The main problem is that we have an increasing and ageing population as people are living longer but yet the amount of wards, a&e’s and hospitals that have been closed in recent years.
It’s not going to get any easier and I haven’t heard of any new hospitals being built.
Yes it is like a war zone. That it is exactly what it’s like which is why more and more nurses are leaving the wards.
The government have stopped the nhs bursary for student nurses and according to reports by the RCN the numbers of recruits are dwindling. If it carries on, more and more trusts will need to recruit from abroad to meet demand.
So unfortunately no matter how much money is thrown at it, nothing will help until the government wake up and listen to front line NHS staff and reinstate the bursary.

The money is inefficiently spent by the Government and by the Health trusts. There are two many admin staff, not enough staff on the cutting edge and poor infrastructure, communication systems etc. The most frustrating experiences we've had are because trying to phone a hospital/the correct department is a nightmare, and there is nothing to tell you how many people there are on the line waiting etc...

Graphista, you can think it is wrong, but what is your actual, practical and enforceable solution? I take the view that if the problem was easily solvable it would have been solved.

If it could be that easy. It’s not just the NHS failing so we’d have to pay 1-2% tax to all these sectors.

Not whilst private firms like Virgin are making profit out of NHS for their shareholders . Time to get big companies paying their taxes to invest in NHS. Surely post brexit it'll get another £350 million a week?

One problem - and only one, i hasten to add, since there are myriad others - that encumber the nhs are the tiers of middle managers on six figure salaries, some of whom earn more than consultants. I am sure that of some of them disappeared, taking their inflated pension pots with them, patient care would not suffer greatly.

The money is inefficiently spent by the Government and by the Health trusts. There are two many admin staff, not enough staff on the cutting edge and poor infrastructure, communication systems etc.

This keeps being stated, yet independent international bodies rank our health system as the most efficient in the world. We invest half of what the US does in tax spend per contributor, yet we have better outcomes, and it covers everyone, not just the most indigent. We have topped the rankings for equitable access and efficiency for several years - that's why Theresa May is able to claim our NHS is "the best health care system in the world" despite not having anything like one of the best records in outcome, where spending matters drastically (unless you're American, where admin costs of running a cumbersome insurance system as a parasite business model mean you're most expensive, least efficient, and have worst outcomes.)

The problem is funding. We're told it's systemic, in my view, because that narrative means we can be told more money wouldn't fix it, it's the way it's set up - behold, it's unfit for purpose and the magic of privatisation will fix it.

The IMF have predicted it'll be privatised in a handful of years. The allowing it to crash, and when funding is mentioned the cries of it being an inefficient system which would merely waste any greater investment, is therefore somewhat suspicious, no?

We recently moved to the uk from Ireland and had to attend the doctor. In Ireland we did not have a medical card - (these are means tested and age/illness related) so would have had to pay €60 per visit. It certainly made you think twice before booking an appointment and if it was completely necessary to see the GP.

I've said this numerous times before, but there needs to be a non party political discussion about the NHS.

Politics left at the door.

No party has managed the NHS well in the past. I've had good and bad treatment when both parties have been in charge.

It won't happen though because people can't stop the mud slinging, so nothing happens.

I wouldn't mind contributing more in taxes. The NHS should be an apolitical institution. All parties should unite in agreeing the best way forward. It is not a political football.
First we need to strip it bare of all the corruption and thousands of managers and administrators. The budget for the NHS is huge and those handling it should be accountable. Not only that the NHS caters for so many more now and in so many more different ways. It is creaking at the seams. It should not be a free service for health tourists, that should be made clear. When I travel abroad I will not be treated without health insurance. Cosmetic surgery should not be part of the NHS remit apart from reconstruction after surgery or terrible, disfiguring accidents. I am also of the belief that IVF treatment should be limited. A complete review is necessary of where the money is going and it should be the concern of ALL politicians that the NHS remains fighting fit. Something is rotten at its core and needs to be excavated. Petty squabbles over which party looks after it better are fruitless. All our elected MPs should have a vested interest in it's survival.

Biggest problem with the NHS is us, the UK population. Too many of us don't look after ourselves and our families properly (why should we when healthcare is free) and don't use the NHS properly (missed appointments, going to doctor when no need, turning up in A&E for non emergencies). Cut this out and NHS would do much, much better.

We could save the NHS £2 billion a year if we stopped health tourism by issuing a health card to those entitled to NHS healthcare and refused to treat those without one unless they pay up front or have valid health insurance as other countries do. It is a NHS not an international one. Also I think the NHS should not be providing free food for people in hospital they should be paying for their own food. The NHS was not set up to provide food just free healthcare. That would save another couple of billion each year. That could be used to fund towards social care. Eventually I think the answer is people paying an insurance to cover the cost of their care in old age as the most likely way to deal with an ageing population.

I wouldn't mind contributing more in taxes. The NHS should be an apolitical institution. All parties should unite in agreeing the best way forward. It is not a political football.

Exactly.

There's too many people using it

Perfect Storm - did the IMF predict it would be privatised, or did they in fact say that if the govt wanted to eliminate its budget deficit by the middle of the next decade it may have to cut back / privatise public services such as the NHS.

What reason did it give for this? Brexit and the impact of the financial crisis on British govt borrowing levels. All this in an environment where tax as a % of GDP will be 34.3% by 2022 (IMF), more than at any time since the 1950s.

Piglet - it is a political football. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Why can we not have private insurance here then people would stop taking the NHS for granted.
It works in other countries, people on benefits get theirs paid by the government. I have been told several times that people will not be able to afford it. I used to live somewhere else in Europe and had to pay for medical insurance for myself, even as a student, and for my children but it was affordable. l would never think of going to see the GP just for a common cold when l just needed to take a couple of paracetamol and a rest. In this country people line up at A& E with flimsy excuses. Honestly, changing the culture of how people perceive the NHS will go a long way.

We could save the NHS £2 billion a year if we stopped health tourism by issuing a health card to those entitled to NHS healthcare and refused to treat those without one unless they pay up front or have valid health insurance as other countries do.

It's not quite that simple. The figure of 1.8 billion includes EU nationals, who are either visiting and entitled to emergency care on the same terms as we are in the EU, or living here and entitled to the same care we are here (and those UK citizens working elsewhere are in the rest of the EU). It also includes students here lawfully, and entitled to care, and those where we have reciprocal care arrangements, such as Australia. Only around £500 mill is chargeable, and we already reclaim 100 mill. I mean, it's not great to lose that dosh, but it's a tiny fraction of overall spending and the costs of admin of trying to reclaim it could end up costing more than just writing it off.

Piglet - it is a political football. It shouldn't be, but it is.

It always has been. I am sick of the "We will save it, you are destroying it" nonsense which goes backwards and forwards between the government of the day and opposition party ad infinitum. It gets us nowhere. It needs all parties to come together to agree on an audit, and the stripping down of the cumbersome NHS model we now have back to bare bones, to see how and where the billions given to the NHS are being spent. Management and layers and layers of unnecessary bureaucracy and corrupt spending has to be exposed. It's an all-party task for the sake of the people of the UK who depend on the wonderful NHS. Corbyn, May and their cohorts need to direct their efforts at saving it instead of trying to score political brownie points. So much hot air is wasted and so little is being done to expose where the NHS cancer lies. A huge reorganisation and reform is necessary, for the good of the NHS and the millions of people who rely on it. It has to be good for (free) future use and the rot as well as the pointless party political arguing has to stop now.