To think we should all just pay 1-2% income tax to help fix the nhs

[Ieatcake]

Lots of health professionals are saying it's like a third world country. We need more beds and more money for socialcare. Not many would even notice a tiny tax rise and it would help fix it ASAP.

I would but I would also like to see people charged for either wasting the NHS's time- calling an ambulance for a hangover (story from a paramedic friend) or for things that aren't really essential such as travel jabs, entirely cosmetic providers where there isn't a psychological issue.

The last 2 I have in the past taken and felt guilty about. I've since gone private for both.

As long as Jeremy Hunt is sacked first.

I agree it's gone beyond needing money. I also agree people should be fined / asked for costs when they use it irresponsibly. I had to sit in A&E with my very poorly mother who was struggling to breathe waiting for help while staff dealt with a bunch of pissheads.

A full audit and review of NHS spending, procurement,duplication,layers of unnesscessary managers would reveal huge levels of waste and overspend.

The NHS receives billions but wastes a huge amount of its allocated resources.

A national review and audit would reveal it in all its glory.

This is rarely discussed people like Dawn Butler and Corbyn just demand more money which can be thrown away.

The drive to privatisation has indeed led to inefficiencies. PFIs, extraordinary outsourcing expenses. Old Etonian procurement practices. IT feeding troughs for the well-connected.

Keep it public. Fund it properly. Stop blaming the sick and poor.

Umm no. Everyone would notice a 1-2% tax rise. Many live on the margin and it would drastically reduce discretionary spending. This could in turn lead to a recession and a net reduced tax take.

The NHS is bloated and flabby and cannot provide all it promises (despite some wonderful people working in it). There needs to be a serious discussion about what the NHS must provide (1st class medical care) and what discretionary treatments should at least be means tested.

In addition the bloated management structure and excessive salaries paid to glorified administrators need to be dealt with urgently.

I also agree people should be fined / asked for costs when they use it irresponsibly

What about when the NHS wastes patients time? Asking the patient to return multiple times for appointments rather than getting a test done that might cost a bit of money but would ultimately be cheaper in the long run.

What about when the NHS wastes patients time?

Which is why "the public" wouldn't accept fines & charges. The NHS needs to get it's house in order and when, and only when, it is efficient and stops the wasted appointments, late cancellations, etc will fines & charges be palatable to the public.

As it stands, the NHS places zero value on its' patients' time. It has a mentality of it being perfectly acceptable to make people sit & wait a few hours for an appointment, or to call someone in for an appointment only to find the file or test results have been lost or just to say that the test results showed nothing, or for a patient to turn up to an empty clinic only to find it's been cancelled and they could't be bothered to tell the patients.

Worst I had was when I took my elderly mother to an appointment, we did the electronic signing in, and then waited in an empty waiting room, watching two receptionists do nothing but gossip and drink coffee. After about an hour, I went and asked the receptionists whether they were running late, and only then told that the entire session had been cancelled. It's bad enough they don't tell you in advance but to let you sit there without saying anything is ridiculous.

I'm curious - what do you to help the public and the poor, make? Apart from clamouring for others to pay more tax, which doesn't count, as discussed upthread.

Can't tell you the number of times my time has been wasted or I have had to chase appointments. However, I'm still of the view that people should be charged for time wasting they do. Recovering costs the other way will come in time but the set up is too shit to fight for it at this stage. I was once sent to the wrong hospital for example.

To those people fat shaming and citing the cost of type two diabetes. The main cost of diabetes by an absolute garden mile is complications. In type two these can be developing for years before diagnosis. By stigmatising type two diabetes and obesity, you are preventing people from seeking early diagnosis and treatment. This is where the cost comes in - not the cost of a few metformin tablets. It's also important to remember that not all fat people have type two diabetes, only a small proportion do, and that not all people with type two diabetes are fat at diagnosis - 20% of people with T2D are a normal weight or underweight at diagnosis. Also, please remember that other types of diabetes are entirely unrelated to lifestyle.

Focusing in on diabetes to the exclusion of eg alcohol and fag abuse is unhelpful. Diabetes is a different thing.

My time has been wasted by going to the doctors for nearly 60 years for prescriptions for eczema. I am allergic to somethings. Only through a fluke did I realise that was the problem. But rather than referring me to find out exactly what it is I am allergic to which would have cost a bit more they prefer to have me constantly come back to them doctors time and my time wasted to try and help the eczema
In the meantime my life lays in tatters as when I have flare ups and it gets so bad I cant leave the house as it covers my face. I have spent 2 lots of 5 years in agony because of 2 problems I had. 1st was I had a stomach ulcer when I was 11. I knew it was a stomach ulcer, Dr said no I was a silly girl who needed to eat and people were starving to death and here I was refusing good food. It culminated in me being referred to a psychiatrist who told me that I was punishing myself for eating and the pain I felt was in my head. Finally managed to get a Barium Meal test after having a screaming match with the Dr. I was given 6 weeks to live because I had now a stomach full of ulcers.
I was under the orthodox hospital who failed to diagnose slip discs for 5 years+ and was walking round with 2 toddlers with a zimmerframe.
Finally went private after being in constant agony for 5 years and some one actually looked at me, 5 years at the orthopaedic hospital and my consultant only once actually looked at me when he had a student in.
Osteopath diagnosed me in a few minutes. She could see the bones sticking out of my back.

You add up all the doctors appointments consultants, psychiatrist, physiotherapy and prescriptions which I have cost the NHS when a Barium Meal test, a proper allergy test and an MRI would have sorted everything out.
The NHS would rather save £300 but then go on to shell out £300,000.

Dp was told he didn't have bowel cancer (showing all the symptoms and a family history)

They diagnosed stress, bad food, hernia, constipation etc

Dp was diagnosed on a trolley in A&E when it was too late. The cancer had already spread.

I also think people wasting NHS time or demanding cosmetic type procedures will bleat they haven't any money. There is another thread going whereby someone didn't go to the dentist for 10 years and her teeth are covered in plague.

Only gets the minimum under NHS and wonders why. Brushing your teeth costs very little yet she was wanting to have scales and polishes also under the NHS because she was on benefits.

Until people take personal responsibility we are not going anywhere.

If you forget your NHS appointment or got dead drunk one Friday night why on earth shouldn't you be fined. Why is everything free with no consequences if you abuse it.

I am sick and tired of hearing excuses as to why personal responsibility doesn't apply to them.

I pay a lot of tax one way or another so no thanks, but I’d pay at the point of service for gp appt (£10 per go). Tgis should be means tested. Those who don’t turn up for appts should def be charged.

This is how wasteful the NHS is.

My friend works for them. No promotion as such but got a £9k pay rise because they "had to spend the budget" this took him to £65k a year which from speaking to him was at least £20k a year more than he would have got in private industry for a similar role.

He then gets made redundant and receives a big pay off and notice period with pay.

After this ends, he is then taken back on by the NHS as a contractor and they are paying him £400 a day! £2000 a week to do virtually the same thing!

All it saves them is the pension.

Due to his ridiculously high salary (he even admits it was crazy), his pension will be around £30,000 a year index linked.

Until they deal with this sort of crap then giving them more will just be a waste