To think we should all just pay 1-2% income tax to help fix the nhs

[Ieatcake]

Lots of health professionals are saying it's like a third world country. We need more beds and more money for socialcare. Not many would even notice a tiny tax rise and it would help fix it ASAP.

Oh absolutely, they said the economy is going to go to hell in a handbasket and NHS privatisation will be the result. But let's be blunt; it's already started. 70% of tendered contracts are now won by private bodies, Virgin sued when the NHS did win one on the grounds that it wasn't a level playing field because they didn't have to factor making a profit in to their calculations, and Theresa May and a lot of the cabinet have been repeated guests of a leading healthcare provider in the US. You'd need to be very naive to think they are sadly reluctant on this one. It's not as though the commitment to adequate funding is present.

A leading virologist at Oxford has pointed out that flu hasn't hit yet. The scapegoating of it as the cause of current stresses is nonsense; this is just a normal winter, to date. Which, given it is highly likely to be a much worse year than average is rather scary.

I love this country. As a dual national who was not born here, I am really appreciative of it. But we are genuinely going to have to consider emigrating to the other passport-held nation, if things get as bad as predicted. I have a disabled child. The NHS is essential to our family, and if it is destroyed, then we'll have to take stock. We are lucky; we have 2 passports for rich nations, and DH has extremely sought after qualifications in a financial field. That's an unusually privileged position. And I don't want to leave. I don't feel at home in the other country, and I love it here. It makes me very sad, what is happening. Not just with the NHS, either. Brexit and the polarisation, politically... we seem such an angry country now, with so little interest in trying to bridge the understanding gap between left and right. I don't think anyone (well, almost no-one) wants anyone to suffer, or lose out. It's a lack of understanding that, IMO, is caused by the increased aggression in discourse. It's hard to explain how severe poverty is now, and what problems people grapple with as a matter of course, when anyone who doesn't know that is shouted at. If you don't lead a life that intersects with people whose lives are at crisis point, then how can you know?

The NHS is simply reflective of what is happening to all social provision, now. Try talking to anyone in a CAB, or a food bank, or a final-safety-net charity, or with a disabled child in state education. Funding is down dramatically, and need at an all time high. It's just that most people aren't affected, whereas (almost) everyone uses the NHS. So it's very visible.

Graphista It may be wrong but that does not mean it should be prevented by law.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Please, no. Pharmaceuticals is one of the most profitable industries in the world. Please realise I said industries. It's a business. A business that NEEDS sick people. Your doctor's surgery is a fully functioning business with guaranteed clients. When Bevin set it up, do you really think it was for the people?? Or was it to pull together doctors and guarantee them business. Have we got healthier or sicker? Do we know more about health or less? Are we independent or dependant on the system? Are doctors in it for the money? Some' I'm sure, but not all. Most believe wholeheartedly in what they are offering. I spent three hours speaking with a retired cancer surgeon. He believed what he was doing was the best - until I pushed him to admit the power of the body to heal itself - all things being equal and the mind ISN'T full of fear.

Is first aid even taught in schools? All schools. Are mothers thaught why a fever should not be brought down in the first 24hrs? Does every citizen know why the skins natural bacteria will cause an infectious reaction when the skin is cut - and why it is designed that way? Simple stuff! Does the population KNOW what cancer is or do we mindlessly give, give, give, (I never have) while billions are made from the back of cancer patients and children going through hell? Is that not the definition of profiteering?

As a result of personal health issues, I have spent most of my life looking for answers only to discover how simple the basics are, but how deadly not knowing them can be. And how that translates to fear and a constant state of underlying distress.

We DO NOT NEED to through more money after a bad social system. A system that keeps naturally smart and inquisitive humans dumbed down. Dumbed down, obedient and docile until things get really bad. I speak for myself of course. Not until my own health turned my life upside down did I question. Then I couldn't stop. My questioning bewildered and offended my moral sensibilities so much that I put my life on the line (in my mind) to write and publish a review (criminal complaint) in 2004. See attached. (written under my former name) It may require a few cups of tea - or a bottle of wine. My actions were inspired by Dr Mathius Rath who presented a formal complaint to the international criminal court in the Hague about 'The Business of Disease' and it didn't make one tv, newspaper, or radio station.

Having realised the power of the mind in all of this, and hearing my young niece tell me she was scared of getting cancer, my heart broke and my blood boiled giving me the courage to write and begin the petition: NO MORE CANCER ADVERTISING on Change.org www.change.org/p/philip-dunne-minister-of-state-for-health-no-more-cancer-advertising?recruiter=551480624&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_petition

Have you ever wondered why companies pay so much money for adverts on TV, radio, internet, magazines when most of us don't really pay attention? It's because the brain records EVERYTHING. I found this out the hard way (please read the petition). So, even though we are not paying attention to a particular product or warning, the brain records it as information - the more the information is replayed, the more powerful a position it takes in the subconscious mind. No, I am not a mental health professional, my knowledge comes from private research, experience and common sense. My background is RAF, holistic sports therapy and advanced energy medicine practitioner. Now, I am focusing on writing and creating an online platform for other independent writers: 'authors willing to question their sanity, writing for readers' who question our humanity'. (Good-Spirited Mavericks). I digress, I think.

Please, no more money to the NHS unless it is to become the Natural Health Service that, as part of its treatment, is to educate and empower citizens with knowledge enough to deal with the basics, avoid chronic diseases like cancer and not feel powerless and petrified everytime their child gets a fever.

Are we victims? NO! Are 'they' to blame? NO, blame is energy sapping. Are we powerless? Not if we don't want to be.

If you have read this far, bless you! Please know this is the first time I have ever written in this way - without stopping and measuring every word. I guess the I got passionate. Passion is good. THANK YOU, AIBU for the question/statement. And everyone who has engaged the question. I didn't read all, I just got carried away with my NOOOOOO from the question itself ;) - so I have no idea if I am speaking to the like-minded or not. But it does feel GREAT to write freely without censoring myself.

As with everything, this is just my opinion. It's neither right or wrong, it's just the way I see the NHS and our social system. Nothing more.

Blessing to all :)

PS The pdf won't attach so I changed to jpeg, but it only shows the first page of each document. If you would like to read and download the 'criminal complaint' mentioned, just visit: www.goodspiritedmavericks.com/2004

The link to Dr Rath is www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/The_Hague/complaint/index.html

There are loads of things that could help the NHS. Like no longer giving prescriptions for things that can be purchased for under £1 in a supermarket. Charging people around £10-20 for a GP appointment much like the dentist. With people having to pay the full or half the cost of the appointment if they don’t show and didn’t cancel. This would reduce missed appointments for a start and make people think about whether they need a GP. Even A&E visits maybe they should charge £20-50 as a bill you can arrange to pay within 60days (because obviously if you’ve been in a car accident you don’t want to immediately be thinking about paying out money for it). I know it costs the NHS more than this but it would just help people think “do I really need to go to a&e” and again it puts a small amount of money back in. I would happily pay £50 for an A&E trip if I was really needed even if I couldn’t afford it on the actual day it happened because let’s face it a lot of us are counting the pennies right now. But if tha is what it took to save NHS I would gladly pay a small fee for an appointment or trip to hospital.

Unfortunately these are just tiny ideas. The NHS needs a whole overhaul and no one wants to be the one to do it. Instead it’s waiting for the NHS to collapse so people have to go private. I don’t even want to imagine how much the monthly fee for private healthcare would cost.

I don't think you should charge for appointments, because some people wouldn't go when they really, really needed to... but you absolutely should be fined for missed ones, I completely agree. People call in the morning, make the appointment, don't go, and then whine about NHS waiting lists and how booked up the GP is.

Charging people around £10-20 for a GP appointment much like the dentist

Completely disagree with that one.

Genuine people in need wouldn't go and it will be very expensive for those who have serious illnesses.

Charging people around £10-20 for a GP appointment much like the dentist

I think that's a good idea, people don't avoid going to the dentist in the main as NHS places are always full.

For people who need to go regularly like diabetes etc they could have a scheme like pre paid annual prescriptions so cheaper and then only pay if they miss an appointment.

Why are we blaming the staff? or the administrators. How many of you are old enough to remember 30 or 40 years ago. We were the pride of Europe if not the world. When enough resources allow our nursing staff are one of the best trained in the world. As I said its not a case of inefficiency. Give them the tools and the jobs could be done better. Get people in the top ranks that have actually worked on the ground floor/front line. They will instruct you are to what is needed. Support our juniors more so they can be instrumental in our futures. Of course we are an ageing population. But many of those 'put out to pasture,' have turned their attention to helping the staff at these hospitals as they have become our volunteers. Willing to pitch in for nothing just so the staff can concentrate on saving lives rather than admin duties. its not that otherwise we in the uk would not have our staff poached by other countries. That's the problem right there. Value them more so they will NOT HAVE TO LEAVE IN ORDER TO HAVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE NEED for their families. We used to have pride in being in the NHS. Because of severe cuts getting rid of ancilliary staff etc. Doctors and nurses are now undertaken duties that the auxillaries would have done and cannot concentrate their skills on what is professionally required.
Give them their pride back and it will in turn help us to retain the staff we have trained here. Stop syphoning off funds to instigate Policies that do not work or are draining the funds with not much results. Buy the new equipment that will help the staff without having to get rid of a few more employees to justify it. Just allow them to do their job without constantly berating them about the inconsequential stuff. As I said lives are priceless. so give them a decent wage to survive on.
That's all they are asking and you will getting loyalty that will go above and beyond every time.

That's all they are asking and you will getting loyalty that will go above and beyond every time.

No, it kind of sounds like you are just asking everyone to keep throwing money at it no questions asked to kick the can down the road.

Pretty much everyone on this thread baring those who are just playing partisan politics have said that it needs to be looked at, both right and left.

I think that's a good idea, people don't avoid going to the dentist in the main as NHS places are always full.

Again disagree.

Plenty of NHS dentists in this area that aren't full.

When people don't have the money they don't go to the dentist. There are plenty if people that don't.

If people don't go to the GP when they need to because they don't have the money, it could cost them their lives.
I

I think that's a good idea, people don't avoid going to the dentist in the main as NHS places are always full.

NHS payments for dentistry are now so low they don't cover costs in a lot of areas, so many dentists who used to be NHS refuse to treat any new patients unless they register for private care. It's a massive issue - though thankfully better than it was 20 years ago when some areas had completely closed lists - and why the remaining NHS lists are always busy.

When people don't have the money they don't go to the dentist. There are plenty if people that don't.

Unfortunately that's true. And some dental problems can be dangerous, untreated.

A recent Times article - hardly a bastion of Marxist propaganda - says that millions of Britons have no local dentist willing to take on new NHS patients.

In 24 local authorities in England, every dentist is taking on only private patients, according to the most in-depth analysis to date of information published on the NHS Choices website. Of those surgeries with information on NHS Choices about whether they are accepting new NHS patients, 49 per cent are currently not taking on new adults. Some 42 per cent are refusing to see new children entirely, with others only accepting them if they have a parent who is a patient.

Employers national insurance is high enough coupled with the fact your employer has to pay 13% if your wages to the government for employers liability there’s plenty of money , just not spent properly .
The NHS is free at the point of delivery so people don’t seem to put a value on it therefore gets abused. Charge for failed appointments that’s a start !

To many chiefs and not enough Indianans.

YANBU. I would put a penny on the basic rate of income tax and an extra penny on the higher rate.

The NHS is a bottomless pit. Whatever money you throw at it will never be enough. We need to start prioritising what can be treated on the NHS.

We pay in our National Insurance. That's what it's for, insuring us

The problem with charging for missed appointments is enforcing it - it's hard to chase a tenner or £20 here and there. Perhaps the way forward would be to block further treatments until the fine has been paid, but that would require some sort of centralised database maybe?

'Anyone who votes for the Tories should hang their heads in shame'? Wtf !!!

Are you kidding me Cream Bun2? How dare you! Last time I checked this was a democracy and people could choose who they voted for without fear, whether it was Liberal Democrats, Labour or yes even the Conservatives. Absolutely disgraceful - smacks of dictatorship

Only read front page.

No ,im not up for paying more tax. I pay enough already thank you and id like to pay less or even none.

The NHS needs to stop doing lots of things, sort out its procurement chain and stop allowing suppliers to rip it off. It needs to end health tourism and a myriad of other things.

When its done all that come back and ask me for more tax .

Employers national insurance is high enough coupled with the fact your employer has to pay 13% if your wages to the government for employers liability there’s plenty of money , just not spent properly .

NI total raised last year: 130 billion.

Spending on public pensions last year: 160 billion

NHS spending last year: 147 billion.

There is not plenty of money. There's nowhere near enough money, in fact. For NI to cover all of that, we'd need to triple it. Alternatively, we need to raise taxes...or make some rather savage cuts. At the moment, we're doing the latter. And given what the NHS does, it seems probable it will cost a lot of lives if we do have the predicted flu epidemic this winter. You cannot provide care if you have no beds.

The NHS is a bottomless pit. Whatever money you throw at it will never be enough.

Sure. But we still spend a hell of a lot less of our GDP on healthcare than almost all developed nations, per person. And yet we get fairly good outcomes, given that low investment; we're ranked as the most efficient spenders. It's just not rational to claim that more money wouldn't lead to a more generous service. Would there be some waste? Yes, there would. There is in any huge organisation. But that's like saying you won't feed your kids decent food, because they don't eat everything on their plates and it's therefore wasteful. I mean, that's not grounds to start feeding them Iceland nuggets at every meal.

We need to spend more cash. Will there always be more of a claim than we can meet? Sure. That's life. We have to make compromises. But I think when you have the Sec of State for Health in a G7 nation arguing that patients ill enough to need hospital admission are fine waiting on chairs, because the overflow gurneys on corridors are all occupied, and we aren't even in the grip of any epidemic... then the balance is seriously fucked up.

Apologies, that should read: For NI to cover all of that, and the working age welfare state, we'd need to triple it.

The NHS needs a thorough review and a decimation of the management side - that would probably save enough money to pay for more staff on the ground.

Yep. The CCG's I have dealt with chuck money around like it is going out of fashion. They don't seem to care.

NHS trusts , I think bought in by labour , are the root of a lot of problems .

I recently spoke to a supplier to the nhs of a product not a drug . They said it’s like printing money . Once they got the contract with no question about what profit they are making , they were on to a winner .

And it was proven recently just one drug the nhs was being charged £800 per months supply could be bought in Europe for 9 euros.

Get the basics of purchasing sorted before pumping more money in .

Erm - I think that's EXACTLY what laws are for - to stop people doing things the majority agree are "wrong" - isn't it? If not what ARE they for?

TOTALLY disagree with even small payments at point of access! This WILL discourage those MOST in need - the poor, disenfranchised, homeless, mentally ill, elderly and frail.

My dentist charges if you miss appointments/cancel with less than 24 hrs notice, WITHOUT a good reason. But they will take certain circumstances into account - eg elderly with memory issues, intermittent unpredictable mobility issues, myself - I get panic attacks and am agoraphobic so I plan as much as possible but if something happens to trigger an attack it cannot be helped, have been involved in an accident/emergency or a close family member has etc but you do have to provide proof you can't just say it.

As for "people don't fail to access dental treatment" yea they do - and then end up having to have extensive dental treatment in hospital because their teeth are a mess! Not that long ago there were MASSIVE issues with lack of nhs dentistry provision to the point people were having to go hundreds of miles, queues around the block type thing, just to get ANY treatment - I think it was in the national news? So no - false economy aside from the ethical issues.