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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To have turned away this airbnb guest?

999 replies

Hiptrip · 07/01/2018 09:05

I have been doing airbnb for a while and have found it a great way to meet new people, and earn a little extra. That is until last Friday night.

Despite my house rule of no children, a woman wrote to me and asked if I could make an exception, promising that her two-year old son would be very well behaved. My house is not set up for children, and I simply don’t want toddlers here so I replied and said no.

She said that was okay and booked anyway, saying she had to come to my town for a wedding, and that she’d find someone to look after him.

Then she turned up with her child at 9.30pm saying she couldn’t find a sitter, and had hysterics as she pleaded with me on the doorstep, to allow him to stay. I refused and in the end called the police because she said she wouldn’t leave until I gave her, her money back in cash because she needed it to stay elsewhere. As she was starting to cause a nuisance, they got rid of her.

She’s taken this to airbnb. My argument is that she was told she couldn’t bring her child, and did anyway, so she should lose her money. Not unreasonable?

OP posts:
aaaaargghhhhelpme · 07/01/2018 18:33

No it's not. Kindness is 'the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate'

Nothing to do with more than 'required to'

The op was perfectly kind in her opening communication with the cf. in fact she insists on emailing with potential visitors so she can make sure her house is the right place for everyone involved.

What you're saying is the op should be a martyr. Accept the piss taking and bend over backwards for more.

Pengggwn · 07/01/2018 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 07/01/2018 18:34

Gunsandbanjos - hahaha. I thought that too. Except I'm pretty sure I was the update a while ago after the wedding.

(Can't remember but think she turned up at the wedding without the child)

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 07/01/2018 18:36

Ahhh brilliant. should have thrown a few dictionary definitions in a bit earlier. Might have stopped this farce of a thread.

Hygge · 07/01/2018 18:36

"Well, no, actually. She said she doesn't like children and that is a significant part of why she didn't let her in."

No, she said that she doesn't like children and that's a significant part of why she's chosen to offer child-free accommodation only in her house, and that's why it's not been set up for children to stay.

The reason she didn't let them in is because the women knew this, booked for herself anyway having said she'd make other arrangements for her child, turned up with her child in spite of this, behaved in a way that made the OP think she wouldn't leave if she was allowed through the door, and then screamed and cried until the neighbours came out to see what was happening and threatened to call the police. Which the OP was then forced to do anyway because the woman wouldn't leave.

That's why the OP wouldn't let them in.

smashyourglasses · 07/01/2018 18:51

Silly woman.

CheekyFuckersAreEntertaining · 07/01/2018 18:54

Well I would bet my salary that the CF's child was NOT invited to the wedding (likely child-free) and the reason she didn't have a babysitter would be because the neighbour/local childminder/friend never agreed to watch the child in the first place this was probably the instance that they spoke up and said no way.

Whatever way you look at it, CF was a chancer. She was fully aware her booking was child free. She could not take her child. End of. But she is probably so used to getting away with her cheekyfuckery that she was astounded that she got a firm no and couldn't handle it.

OP you did the right thing.

meercat23 · 07/01/2018 18:57

OP, if you can bear to wade through all of these arguments about what did or didn't happen and what others would or wouldn't have done, it would be great to hear what Airbnb had to say in the end.

expatinscotland · 07/01/2018 19:11

'I have already said, the OP was not obliged to refund. However, I would have refunded as a kindness. That is all I said. What is the issue with that?'

Which she may not be able to do because, once again, the money is with AirB&B. At any rate, she's not entitled to a refund as she breeched the terms and conditions of the hire. It is a lodging agreement, a contract one willingly enters into. If a person books lodging, and then doesn't turn up, breaks the terms, etc., it means the landlord still retains the price of the hire. How hard is this to understand? It's why when people start threads on here about sneaking in an extra person, they are informed in no uncertain terms that the establishment can kick them out and retain the fee.

SauvignonBlanche · 07/01/2018 19:11

Hope Airbnb adjudicate in the OP's favour, I cant believe people are so dim as to not understand how the OP is financially worse off if a no-show is refunded. Hmm

PollyBanana · 07/01/2018 19:11

@meercat23 because what airbnb say is actually more relevant than what a random MNetter (or a penguin) would do

buttfacedmiscreant · 07/01/2018 19:32

Enabling CFs is not a kindness to them.

CherryMaDeara · 07/01/2018 19:40

Expat

and the odd penguin who screams, 'Will someone think about the children!!!'

Here is the penguin feeding all the children

To have turned away this airbnb guest?
BashStreetKid · 07/01/2018 19:45

Yes, it is slightly inconsistent. However, given I go above and beyond every day for my salary and work uncounted hours of overtime each year, I am really not feeling the similarity.

That doesn't work, does it, Pengggwyn? You have no idea whether OP goes above and beyond the call of duty; and you would have to do the overtime anyway, irrespective of whether or not the school were closed for the day.

Own the fact that you are expecting wholly different standards from the OP than you apply to yourself.

Motherbear26 · 07/01/2018 19:47

The only person who was being unreasonable was the cf. I can almost (only almost, mind) understand trying your luck if you’ve genuinely been let down at the last minute. What I don’t understand is doing so without any cash for a plan B option or ranting and raving in front of your child when refused. I feel very sorry for the child, I expect the whole experience was dreadful, but I certainly wouldn’t have let this woman into my home under these circumstances. She sounds batshit and dangerous.

Completely agree that op shouldn’t refund too. Someone else may have taken the room so why should op lose out? Extremely glad that she was sensible enough to not give in to this woman and refund cash. The cf would’ve still tried to claim from air bnb.

BashStreetKid · 07/01/2018 19:52

And as I have already said, that is what I would have done. I'm not psychic so I wouldn't have known she was going to refuse to leave. I would simply have said yes when she asked.

I think there might have been a bit of a clue to her behaviour inasmuch as OP says she became hysterical when told she couldn't stay.

But, irrespective of that, if a woman turns up on your doorstep with a toddler at 9.30 this evening, tells you she's been driving some distance and asks if the toddler can use the loo, I take it you'll be happy to let her in?

SnorkFavour · 07/01/2018 19:55

YADNBU!

I'm glad you stuck to your guns and I would be really shocked if AirBNB don't find in your favour.

All those people saying you put her in a dangerous situation .... what!?!! SHE put herself and her child in that situation and she's even checked with you beforehand, its soo cheeky. The other guests had a right to have child free accommodation as well, if AirBNB find in her favour, you should ask them if they're then willing to refund people who expected a child free stay if this ever happens again.

The woman was a disgrace. I'm so glad you stood your ground, well done!

BashStreetKid · 07/01/2018 19:56

Well, no, actually. She said she doesn't like children and that is a significant part of why she didn't let her in. She said she isn't running a refuge. She didn't say she did it because she anticipated trouble if she let her in. She just said she said no.

OP specifically said that she refused to let the child use the toilet because she thought she wouldn't leave if she did so. Why misrepresent what she said? Given that the woman specifically said she would not leave unless and until she had her refund in cash, that was obviously a reasonable belief. Would you have let someone in who was saying that to you?

Graphista · 07/01/2018 20:14

Actually what I'M thinking is some posters are more alike to CF customer. Think the world owes them.

"and I did get my money back even though the rules said they didn't have to do so." Then you were LUCKY to get those refunds NOT entitled to them!

Op says her home isn't set up for toddlers, that suggests to me either items vulnerable to damage at best or not safe for toddlers at worst. Given how this customer behaved I have no doubt that if items were damaged she wouldn't have covered costs and God forbid her child was hurt she'd have blamed op and probably sued her to the hilt! And it's highly unlikely op's insurance would have covered I wouldn't have let her or her child cross my threshold either.

"If indeed that woman attitude had been 'stuff her, I don't care, I'll show up with my kid anyway and there's nothing she can do about it' " OMG do you seriously NOT GET that's EXACTLY WHAT THE CUSTOMER DID!!!

"There is something called 'the benefit of the doubt' and 'gesture of goodwill', but these seems more and more lost in our society of entitlement and selfishness." Good grief the irony of that ENTIRE statement? The REASON people are stopping giving the benefit of the doubt and gestures of goodwill is BECAUSE of cheeky fuckery like this!

But with everything op's said I'm with johnnycomelately - I think this is a scam she pulled NUMEROUS times, people like that (con artists) have no morals using children like this. I note op hasn't said the child displayed any obvious distress? Probably used to it. Easy way to make around £100 a weekend if not more.

@Mydcaremarvel - as has been explained MULTIPLE times - customer could easily have used a stolen/cloned card to make the booking, or even if not, be well practised at making their claim for a refund from Airbnb (possibly using different name and details each time) AND getting cash refund from those in op's position.

Agree not only lots of potential (if not actual) CF on this thread, but really gullible naive people too.

Omg there's even people who REALLY don't get how insurance companies/insurance works either - they will try to find ANY loophole to avoid paying out. If the child were hurt or God forbid was lifelong injured or killed - the op could easily be liable in civil court for £100,000's!

Given the NEIGHBOURS were alerted to this woman's reaction to not getting her way, enough to want police involved I strongly suspect it would have taken police to remove her from the premises if op had let even just the child in to visit the loo.

"But I am entitled to make an exception to my policy in my home." Er NOT if that puts you then in breach of contract with the other guest/s. They could justifiably sue for that and would likely be successful.

I think some on here would also benefit from learning just what excellent actors con artists are. It's actually quite worrying and like a pp I now see how people get sucked into "green card" style marriages, dodgy tradespeople that tout door-to-door and various other well known cons

"My view is it probably never would have got to that point if this had happened to me." Couldn't disagree more, I highly suspect you would have desperately needed police to intervene to remove a volatile person from your home. Also very unlikely you could have found a room for her AND child for £40 or less per night at this time of year at weekend prices. AND it likely isn't what CF/con woman was after so you'd have been subjected to tons of excuses why the various rooms you sourced were unsuitable.

Penggwynn honestly you give people like this an inch they take a MARATHON route!!

Purplecrowbar - con artists are very similar to gamblers in that they tend to be convinced their ideas will work in their favour - even in the face sometimes of a lot of evidence to the contrary - that said there's a few on this thread would clearly fall for this type of scam.

Penggwynn you can be kind without being a complete doormat, your definition of kind with a CF like this could well end up with someone in op's position acquiring a long term tenant (and child!). Your approach is EXACTLY what CF and con artists rely on, and you're exactly the kind of person they target.

How do I know? 2 relatives who make/made money this way - also very good at talking their way out of trouble with police/courts, I bet this woman wasn't even charged with anything. Didn't so much as get a ticking off from police. Most con artists work multiple short/low value cons rather than long/big money cons because if caught, easier to explain away and lesser sentences. Doesn't really bother them doing community service type things as that often puts them in contact with potential victims - yes the justice system is THAT stupid!

@thedailymailsafmdisgusting - I've also worked in hotels, and have similar anecdotes inc a wedding party that sound scarily similar to your funeral people.

Lol - key difference between CF and experienced con artists, CF smirk, CA maintain the act in case they want to con you again in the future

Nb - I too will not be engaging with penggwynn on this or any other thread in future.

SimonBridges · 07/01/2018 20:24

I think the op was not being unreasonable at all.

This woman made an active choice to to this.
She chose to book somewhere after she had been explicitly told that she would not be welcome.
She chose to still turn up.
She chose to have her child out on a cold night.
The op has said that she is not in the sticks. There would be a Travel Lodge or similar near by. She chose not to book there when the op said no.
If she has been to a wedding then she must be near friends or family. She could stay with them.
Weddings are not a last minute affair. She will have had ample time to organise and arrange accommodation. Even if she is very strapped for cash she has had time to save up.

Failure to to organise herself on her part is not an emergency on the ops part.

TalkinPeace · 07/01/2018 20:29

I hope that @hiptrip is staying in the background, chatting to the lovely folks at Airbnb sorting it all out.

LadyBunnysWig · 07/01/2018 20:36

Firstly, you don't like children so really that should be the be all and end all.

Secondly, your house doesn't sound child friendly. I'm assuming you also haven't screwed all your furniture to the walls so if the child was to start trying to climb a sideboard, for example, that could have disastrous consequences. Same if the child were to go too close to the stairs/find an uncovered plug socket/knock into a table with a plant or vase on etc. The child would not be safe in the house.

Thirdly, (I have no idea how airb&b works but I'll make some assumptions based on this thread) if you make a booking you also agree to the T&Cs? So yours will say that they are agreeing to your rules and that there is a cancellation policy? Where I work, our clients sign for a minimum number, if they fall below that number, they still need to pay for the minimum. Yes the products may not be used/consumed. Yes it would be nice to bend the rules, but ultimately, we would be out of pocket if we always made exceptions. It's basic business sense. I'm amazed that so many people on here lack that.

And finally, I do work as an events manager in a hotel. I can say with absolute certainly that if you do anything that violates our insurance, you will not be permitted to do it. No matter what your sob story is it how young your child is. Insurance is a bunch of ticky boxes and is only valid if all boxes are ticked.

bigbluebus · 07/01/2018 20:45

As someone who has used AirBnB in various locations around the world I hope that:

  1. OP gets paid by AirBnB and does not lose out to this CF
  2. That the OP writes a review on the CF's account profile so that other potential AirBnB hosts are alerted to this woman's behaviour and avoid accepting a booking from her in the future.
beryljane · 07/01/2018 20:49

We're noticed things have become a wee bit heated on this thread so we're just popping in to remind everyone to please post within our Talk Guidelines otherwise they'll be more holes than a doilie soon.

Flissmumsnet. It won't be helped by the fact that there are at least two threads on 'that' subreddit linking here about one poster who seems to have been singled out a bit for criticism. Poster in question isn't even thought to be a troll, just disliked. I'm a member over there but I think it's a bit much and I don't think anything can be done about it.

Pengggwn · 07/01/2018 20:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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