To be worried about House of Fraser

[Viviennemary]

Seems this is the next chain to be in trouble. And Debenhams hasn't been doing to well either lately according to the news tonight. I don't buy a great deal in either of these but would be really sad to see them go. Woolworths gone and then BHS. at the thought they might disappear

I have attempted to shop in HoF loads of times but usually the shops are overstocked with random stuff, badly laid out and cramped - I usually give up and go to John Lewis instead.

The only HoF I've been in that's been a pleasure to look around is the one in Cabot Circus - as pp's have mentioned there are fewer competitors nearby so they seem to take more care about the layout. Bluewater and Meadowhall Stores are appalling!

HoF postage is bloody obscene. £8 for a lipstick to be posted out. I now order direct from USA and pay less.

Debenhams I like for underwear and make up. But I'd get either elsewhere.

Littlepond well said. To which I would add that business rates penalise high street stores vs large warehouses, and if we had a proper level of corporation tax instead, the high street would suffer less.

Sports Direct and Primark are two companies I never shop at and would be happy to see go out of business, but too many people have no conscience and shop there, in part because of the low wage economy.

I’ve worked in Glasgow city centre for decades, and recently realised that I only ever go to John Lewis, TK Maxx and Waterstones, as well as smaller shops like Kiehls, hotel chocolate and jo Malone. I only go to HoF for Mac make-up and I’ve only been to Debenhams once in 20 years and it was too cluttered.

Because I work in the city centre, it’s easier to shop in actual shops than online. I have money, but limited time. I’m not prepared to spend my time in shops that make it difficult to find what you want, or are badly laid out with not enough staff on the floor to ask. I’d put Debenhams, HoF and M&S all in this category.

I have a bit of a soft spot for Debenhams because the staff were amazing when I had a medical emergency there. And my mum is a very loyal customer so that's rubbed off on me a bit!

But I have been losing patience with them; I'd echo the jumble sale comments in particular. In the lead up to Christmas, extra stands of random confectionary appear and clutter up the gangways. And it's just widely available things like Guylian seashells for an inflated price, rather than exclusive items. The contrast with John Lewis's edible gifts is stark.

The lack of staff and long queues to pay is also off-putting but that's true at a lot of shops now. Add in the cost of parking and it's easy to see why online is winning.

I find HoF stores bland. They don't seem to have a USP. If they do, it's lost on me anyway. When I go shopping to my nearest city with friends, I can't really remember which dept store is which. However, Selfridges and Liberty (for example) seem different to other places for some reason. There was also a place in Clapham that had an unique feel but I've forgotten its name now, haven't been there in nearly 20 years.

I bought almost £1k worth of carpets from HoF in December, as well as boots and shoes for myself and a candle for my Secret Santa. However, I'm not normally a big spender in there. I buy cosmetics and fragrance in Boots because of the points.

I like some departments in HoF - bedding etc, kitchware, it's the only shop in my town that sells any decent perfume or makeup lines at all (& TBH not a vast selection of them). But, clothes are a disaster - all the lines stocked my local store are, TBH, old lady clothes. The lingerie department is tiny & keeps being moved around. The whole shop needs renovating - it looks like it was last done in the 80's. The mannequins look like they are from the same era...

Debenhams beauty club is far superior to Boots advantage. And I prefer the brands sold by Debenhams.

Lonicera, I feel your pain.

I'm an awkward shape, top heavy, broad-shouldered and low waisted, and my feet must be really weird, judging by the trouble I have finding shoes that fit. I rely on buying Kurt Geiger in Debenhams sale for my boots and shoes, or occasional purchases from a local independent shoe shop.

I dread the thought of losing stores where you can actually try things on.

Debenhams are also fantastic for underwear in larger sizes.

However, it's crap in store. I shop online as I'm not limited to their stock holding in store.

Newyearnewyew

Well I have not had a chance great experience in there really, zilch customer service... I do like dickens and Jones but it's a strange store... I don't like any of these places resting on their laura legs

Resting on their laura legs?

I buy most of my bras from Debenhams, and one of the most irritating things about my local store is that I almost always have to hunt an assistant down to unlock the bra-fitting room.

There's clearly a big variation in service. I buy all my bras from Debenhams, and have never found the fitting rooms locked! I use 3 different stores, too, depending on which fits in best with my other plans, so it's not just the one store that is especially good at keeping them open.

They also do this thing where if they haven't got the style in size/colour you want, they'll order it for you and deliver it to home or work for free, which is very useful.

The death of the high street is a real problem for the UK, I think, and it makes me sad. Fine if you live in a privileged area where beauty salons and restaurants will take the spaces - but everywhere else will end up with dead town centres.

And then the same people who think they are so clever because they saved a fiver by looking in the shop and then buying elsewhere online will complain. They'll complain when the pension funds that own the properties aren't making any money because there is nobody to rent them. They'll complain about the lack of jobs in the area and the increase in people having to sign on.

The councils don't help. Business rates go up and up, and parking is a nightmare in most town centres.

There should be a happy medium - buy some stuff online and some stuff in the shops and everyone can benefit.

There was also a place in Clapham that had an unique feel but I've forgotten its name now, haven't been there in nearly 20 years.

It was Arding & Hobbs, and I believe it is now a Debenhams. It traded as Allders for a while, but then Allders (independent dept store in Croydon) went bust and closed down.

I grew up in Croydon and Allders was a real feature of the town centre. I'd love to know what's on that site now, if anyone on here is familiar with Croydon shopping.

I agree that HoF are clearly struggling, they closed their Leicester store in 2017. Fenwick also closed their store which was at the 'wrong' end of town, but irrespective of location neither could remotely compete with JL, which dominates the city centre retail scene. Debenhams is a jumbled mess, but always appears to be busy.

I was in HoF's Nottingham store before Christmas, it was run-down, tatty, dirty and clearly unloved. I remember thinking that if I owned HoF shares, I would sell them immediately.

Ahhhh Arding and Hobbs.
The source of many a teenage outfit for me. They had a Jeffrey Rogers concession - does anyone remember them?

Rebeccaslicker, I think you've made a very valid point.

I can foresee a future where the only town centres that are vibrant will be smaller towns with a lot of independent, niche shops (places like Totnes, Lewes, Bridport, Ludlow). Big towns will either be entirely rebuilt as residential, with just a few chains or just centres full of discount chains like TK Maxx, Primark etc.

Historically, pension funds have been huge investors in shopping centres. Norwich Union (now Aviva) used to have loads of money locked up in them, it became a standing joke that whenever I shopped in a couple of town centres, I was building up my mate's pension.

My son this week went to buy a suit in London, so not the middle of nowhere by any means!

He went to M&S and to some other places (don't know which ones). He's of average height and slim, but couldn't find one single suit in his size!

So, of course, had to order online and will do returns if no good. How can high street stores expect ppl to buy if they don't have the stock - not even one in each size for ppl to try on? I know keeping stock levels must be a nightmare, but really?

Rebecca I agree. I do shop a LOT online, but I make sure we shop locally in our independent shops two or three times a week as well.

The problem is that as people have to tighten their belts more and more, persuading them to spend a fiver more than they need to - ie. buying in a local bookshop rather than online - gets harder and harder, despite the long term prospects.

I absolutely hate wasting my time shopping as well - I have no desire to drift around 'looking at stuff', and resent wandering aimlessly through tatty rails of clothes in Debenhams when I could just do it online!

BikeRunSki

Love Jeffrey Rodgers!

I think high streets in small towns are suffering but my city centre is permanently jam packed with shoppers to the extent that this week the car parks were full by midday.

There was also a place in Clapham that had an unique feel but I've forgotten its name now, haven't been there in nearly 20 years.

Arding and Hobbs scrabbler3

Would you (and others) be happy to pay £30 for that same bra in order to have fitting rooms (which are only kept locked due to shoplifting) permanently manned?

I don't know. Debenhams is already more expensive than anywhere else, but I'm sort-of a captive customer. But only sort-of, which should be a worry for them. The most I've paid in Debenhams is £35/£38, I think. I like the convenience of trying stuff on and only buying what fits, but last time, as I said, I just walked out. I went to M&S which is cheaper and always has a staffed fitting room.

Fact is, I am quite aware that I could just order about ten of the bras I like for £20 each on the credit card from a online store and return the nine that don't fit. Part of the reason I'm not is the convenience of just going into a shop for what I want, and walking out with it. But my local store is... not providing that. The other reason I'm not doing online shopping for my expensive bras is my desire to invest in maintainingg high street department stores, instead of bloody Amazon! I would miss Debenhams very much if it went, so I feel obliged to buy there.

But making it difficult for me to be a loyal high street shopper is not helping them. How many other women are going in, seeing what they want, deciding to forgive the price and just buy it, and then being dissuaded when they can't find an assistant to unlock the fitting room?

It's been happening where I am too, and one of the unexpected advantages of large chains pulling out of areas or going under, is the really large amount of small independent co-op shops that have been popping up, as well as the increase in small businesses.

It was a bit desolate in some of the areas at first, but they're now coming back with smaller businesses. Also, landlords have had to drop the rents from the really high prices they were asking because the large chains drew a lot of traffic so more people are getting small shops set up.

I'm no economist, so the overall impact on the economy I have no idea, but it's really nice to see a butcher, a grocers and even a yarn shop returning since the big chain department store has gone.

Allders wasn't an independent department store- it was a chain. There was a huge one in Leeds.