To be worried about House of Fraser

[Viviennemary]

Seems this is the next chain to be in trouble. And Debenhams hasn't been doing to well either lately according to the news tonight. I don't buy a great deal in either of these but would be really sad to see them go. Woolworths gone and then BHS. at the thought they might disappear

I grew up in Croydon and Allders was a real feature of the town centre. I'd love to know what's on that site now, if anyone on here is familiar with Croydon shopping.

Snap! I always remember the Christmas display in the window. Always a scene with mechanical moving characters!

The other gem is Elys in Wimbledon. Not sure for how much longer though. I remember Ricemans of Canterbury and Hanningtons in Brighton fondly too. Fenwicks was good and still is, Liberty, Swann and Edgar, Marshall and Snelgrove, Bourne and Hollingsworth. Now it's just huge swalliwed up chains.

There was an Allders in Nottingham as well. Trouble was it was doen in the grothole that is the Broadmarsh shopping centre. Me and my Mum had some fabulous stuff from there though, beginning of the 90s.

I was in Debenhams yesterday in my town and it was indeed like a jumble sale, and whilst I like a good rummage it was just overwhelming with the amount of racks of mismatched clothing. The lingerie dept is also disorganised and I was getting impatient by the time I'd got what I wanted. Can't say it was a great experience. The staff were pleasant and seemed happy enough.

The house of Fraser here would also be considered a 'new' shop but it is really warm and seems to be full of all the glitzy makes, it is poorly laid out and I've no idea what demographic they're aiming for. All the nice classic good designers are being replaced with Michael Korrs etc and the lingerie dept is leaning more towards a posh Ann summers. There are a lot of staff who seem a bit pissed off. Odd place and apart from the homewear dept, I wouldn't miss it.

I don't want to shop for clothes or lingerie online, I hate having to send things back.

I like HoF, but I prefer going in than buying online from them. Problem is, my nearest one is in Croydon, and I don't really like going to Croydon.

I live in a town that's just had a very expensive regeneration. They've just built a completely brand spanking new Fenwicks (having closed the one in a nearby town).

It's interesting to see the mix of products that they are and aren't selling. There is no 'quality' tableware/glassware from the usual brands - Denby and Royal Doulton etc. There are no SDA electricals, so no Magimix or kettles etc. The expensive kitchen knives and cookware has all gone. However, they do have an entire wall dedicated to Le Creuset in every different colour combination. There is no furniture whatsoever.

There is, however, a wine bar/brasserie and a separate large coffee bar. There is also a 'wine merchant' area which seems ridiculous given the fact that there's a huge Waitrose at the other end of the street.

I suppose it reflects changes in both shopping and lifestyle habits. Years ago, couples used to 'colllect' a nice dinner service as part of a wedding list. Nowadays they buy a cheapo one from IKEA when setting up home and then ask for cash when they get married. Many people would rather use the high street for eating out and then go shopping online or at out of town retail parks.

My city doesn't have hof and I don't believe I've ever been in one!
We do have debenhams which isn't really a destination shop for me. We have a home sense shop which does homewards cheaper and layout is nicer, Lakeland for accessories and on a par with debs prices but again layout is nicer.

Clothing in debs doesn't inspire me, being above average size/plus size, high Street shopping is a pain anyway, I'm only 16/ 18 but not many shops stock above 16 ime!
BUT I loathe shopping online. I'm a tactile shopper, like to touch and see.

Books, definitely an Amazon fan. Usual the 3 for £10 selection. Kids books I go to smiths or supermarkets as usually get some good deals.

My city is apparently a shopping hotspot, we have loads of independents and quirky shops which survive along side the likes of fat Face and Jack wills, so people are still shopping.

I don't live anywhere near a HoF so couldn't shop there if I wanted to.

Our local Debenhams bucks the trend by being quite nice, decently maintained with a good coffee shop - but hardly anything I ever want to buy! I long for them to up their game, because they're about the only worthwhile shop in my one-horse town.

LakieLady I grew up in Croydon as well. I loved Allders. When I was a teenager they used to have a fantastic bargain basement.

BikeRunSki I used to love Jeffrey Rogers stuff

“I have no desire to drift around 'looking at stuff', and resent wandering aimlessly through tatty rails of clothes in Debenhams when I could just do it online”

SheGotBetteDavisEyes you could do what I do and browse online then go to the real shop to try stuff on. For those of you who are short of free time to shop how do you manage clothes shopping if you have to return stuff all the time? Surely you have to be in for a parcel to be collected or wait until Saturday to go to the post office? It must takes weeks to find clothes that fit and look good. I also like to see and feel what I am buying.

I think I must be lucky because the Meadowhall Debenhams is not jumble saley at all. I quite often shop there. It is excellent for bras IMO (and so is M and S for me)

Allders is really grim now. After the shop shut, they put in a load of discount furniture concessions and it sold end of line things. That didn't work, so they turned the main front area into a food court for a while. None of the shops really took off and now I have no idea what's in there. A couple of homeless people seem to be living under the big awning there too.

However... the planning permission for Westfield went through a couple of months ago so they're moving forward with the regeneration in town. Fingers crossed; Allders was a bit grim and run down for a long time before it went under so the building needed significant investment whatever happened.

HoF is in Centrale, you don't actually have to go onto North End to get to it. Which is nice.

I can never afford their prices. I think people are tightening their purse strings now. Prices off food and goods are rising, but saleries are not. If you want designer stuff, people tend to go to Harrods or Selfridge's. As a high street chain it's just too expensive.

Remember the village shops that people get, or used to get, so sentimental about?

They weren't common until the 1830's and were then attacked as a threat to the market towns.

And the railways killed the canals and the canals killed the coaching inns.

And the digital camera killed the photo-processing labs and like it or not Uber will kill the black taxi in London.

That's life.

As for Amazon: I read German for pleasure. Once upon a time there was one piss-poor foreign language bookshop in London and a small choice in some University bookshops. Now there is Amazon.de and I could be in Germany. What's not to like?

I like HOF. I don’t live near one so shop on line. I like the range of brands they do. Debenhams I’ve boycotted since my DH bought a shirt from them as one of their designer collaborations and the following year they had the exact same shirt in the same material by another designer.
I hate made up brands that only exist for the store they’re made for. Most of the Christmas stuff in Boots is like this.
For example Ted baker is not renowned for lipsticks, make up brushes or shower gel so why sell out your brand by going cheap at Boots? It devalues the brand where I think lots of department stores suffer by selling this type of stuff. Buying a 3 for 2 set of toiletries for £15 does nothing for your brand if you want to sell a top for £95 or a dress for £180.
I think John Lewis has it right by selling higher range brands that people trust and giving extended guarantees.
If you can buy the same brands at Home Bargains,The Range and B&M as HOF and Debenhams, much cheaper you might struggle to succeed and more stores will go this way.
Sorry rant over 🙂

Andrewofgg I agree that we have to accept progress, but I don't care for your "I'm alright Jack" attitude

I buy occasionally from HOF but no branch nearby to look at whereas John Lewis easy to visit and do click and collect at Waitrose. I think they have nice things.

It would be a shame to lose this store and then it cuts down choice. I also buy from Debenhams.

I would rather buy as little as possible tbh as I have a lot of clothes and household items and you can only use so much.

The issue with Uber whilst the tech is fab the business model is not currently sustainable. I don’t think it’s currently profitable as they subsidise their low fares. Obviously at some point the fares will have to increase.

I avoid expensive shops like hof and Debenhams but was in there looking for Xmas presents for my mom.

Staff looked down on me and told me the item I wanted would have to be ordered online but couldn't be delivered into store for free as it wasn't from Debenhams collection.

So might as well stayed home and ordered online.

I think part of the problem is shops by tiny little stores to say "look were in this town" but then because the stores are so small they stock virtually nothing. So it just gets used as a click and collect.

Uber in London could raise its fares quite a bit and still be cheaper than the tractor black cab. And the cabbies always have an excuse why they can't take plastic - usually "broken machine".

LonericaJaponica The only bit of my post which has any I'm all right Jack is that I use Uber and Amazon.de. Which of those don't you like?

Black cabs defo do need to move with the times however Uber is massively in the red & if they start having to pay their drivers sick/holiday pay etc & want to turn a profit I would gauge their fares will increase considerably (or pay their drivers less). They will probably go down the subscription route.

@Andrewofgg

I agree, it is progress, the high street has been dying for years long before the current government came into power and not just in the UK.

There is a reason why so many town centers now are full of charity shops, rents are and have been the biggest driver of killing the high street for years, HOF and Debenhams have been on surviving by the skin of their teeth for years, same as plenty of others mentioned in this thread. Retail has always been cut throat, if they are not bringing in sales even in their flag ship stores then the business model isn't working, it is that simple and its not even remotely an, "I'm alright jack attitude"

Last time I went in Waterstones I was looking for a specific type of book. DM and I spent a few minutes flicking through what they had but realised they didn't have what I needed on the shelves. I was perfectly happy to go and look in a larger branch of Waterstones for what I needed - that is until the sales assistant called out to us and told us off for coming in to look at the book and then leaving to buy it on Amazon! I said that that wasn't what I was going to do but as it was only a small branch they simply didn't have what I needed in her shop, but she didn't believe me - and was very rude!

IME HoF stores are looking run down and dated. We just went to our local Ikea which has a big Next on the retail park. Brand new sparkly glass store, free parking, a much more attractive experience. I can see why they are doing well. Debenhams also seem to be racing to the bottom of the market with cheap Dorothy Perkins type brands you can buy anywhere. John Lewis have pulled their brand into the 21st century with some gorgeous new stores.

It is sad to see a brand go but I can easily see why they are losing sales. The market changes over time and retailers come and go.

Once upon a time there was one piss-poor foreign language bookshop in London and a small choice in some University bookshops

@Andrewofgg Grant and Cutler, European Bookshop and Foyles are fantastic foreign language bookshops in London - they've been around for generations not sure what the "one piss-poor bookshop" in London is....

Grant and Cutler has improved since it moved into Foyles - it was piss-poor before and that's when I am talking about. But it still cannot remotely compare with having the resources of Amazon.de which makes effectively every new German book available at the click of a mouse. That's the point I am making and I stand by it.