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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that employers should pay all out of pocket expenses for business trips?

216 replies

cantaffordtogotowork · 05/01/2018 22:13

AIBU to think that if you incur additional expenses for traveling overnight / significantly outside of normal business hours, your employer should pay these costs?

Specifically,

  • Overnight child care - if you're working normal hours you'd just pay for after school care, but for business trips overnight care is hard to find and expensive if you're a single parent with limited support
  • Pet care - if you're working normal hours you'd feed your own pets, walk your own dog etc. I have a very obliging friend who often does this for me (reciprocal arrangement), but if they're unavailable when I'm on a business trip it costs me £40 per night (approx 40% of my take home daily pay) purely because I'm on a business trip (London prices, unavoidably so)

Obviously meals, train fares etc are covered. I can even get a glass of wine FFS. I can't help but feel that the expenses system is designed with the assumption that it's a man traveling while his wife dutifully stays at home.

AIBU to think that you should be able to expense such costs that are incurred purely because you're going the extra mile for your employer?

OP posts:
Seasonseatings · 05/01/2018 22:16

I don’t even get lunch paid for when away from home.

bubblesdrew · 05/01/2018 22:17

I am an employer and I pay all expenses even including childcare etc but, I do try to find the employees who can get the job done cheaper and therefore find that some employees who would be perfect candidates to do don't get as much experience. Therefore, when it comes too pay rises etc the 'cheaper' employees get rewarded more.

bubblesdrew · 05/01/2018 22:18

But, yes your employer should pay it all. Put it all on your expenses form and keep receipts. If they question explain your scenario.

SavvyFishFinger · 05/01/2018 22:18

AIBU to think that you should be able to expense such costs that are incurred purely because you're going the extra mile for your employer?

No, that would not be fair. You should go the most direct route, not the scenic route. I use AA autoroute so that I do not accidentally over inflate my expenses.

www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp

trilbydoll · 05/01/2018 22:19

How much control do you have over when you travel? I'd assume that you would say 'I can't do xyz days because I have no childcare'

And have you asked? I'm part time and when I've worked extra hours my boss has allowed me to put nursery fees on an expense claim.

Neverender · 05/01/2018 22:20

I've only ever had food/accommodation paid for. I've never even considered the things you mention...

ilovesooty · 05/01/2018 22:21

I would have travel reimbursed and the cost of a meals and soft drinks 1 no alcohol.

I wouldn't expect an employer to reimburse childcare costs or pet expenses - I don't think one's personal circumstances are relevant to an employer.

And a single man might just as easily have a pet.

Queenofwands · 05/01/2018 22:22

Excellent point and one I hadn't thought about before. Yes you should be able to claim and as a woman who has a dutiful wife it had never previously occurred to me - it will now and I will make sure I make it known that childcare can be claimed. Great post.

stickytoffeevodka · 05/01/2018 22:22

I would expect to have accommodation, food and extra travel expenses paid for.

Childcare, pet care/kennels are just part and parcel of working life. I don't think you should accept a job that involves overnight travel if you can't shoulder the unfortunate extra costs involved.

Original poster
cantaffordtogotowork · 05/01/2018 22:22

@trilbydoll - None, as it's almost all for conferences and conventions, where the dates are set by external organisations. Frequently the whole (small) team will need to go, but I'm the only one with small beings depending on me.

OP posts:
trilbydoll · 05/01/2018 22:25

As it's not in your control then it seems reasonable to ask the question. It's probably not something that people without kids or with dutiful wives even consider, not maliciously so but it simply won't be on their radar.

LockedOutOfMN · 05/01/2018 22:27

I can see where you're coming from, OP, but I don't think your employer should pay for childcare or petcare unless perhaps these are needed at short notice in an unforeseen "emergency" e.g. a flight back from a trip is significantly delayed.

Ragusa · 05/01/2018 22:32

Is overnight travel in your contract? If so... no I would not expect this to be covered. However I would be looking for a job with better terms.

sparechange · 05/01/2018 22:33

I travel a lot for work, and my work has a very generous expenses policy, but I've not heard of pet sitting being reimbursable

We get the option of 'flying nannies' when required to do overnight or overseas travel while still BFing (a nanny who will travel with you and the baby, and look after them during meetings so you can still feed at night) but I'm pretty sure HMRC rules prohibit claiming for childcare during the course of normal work

And if travel and conferences are part of your job, then that's going to fall within the definition

I had to factor my working hours in before deciding to get a dog, and that meant making sure I could afford to pay for daycare and overnight care because I know my job means I'm out of the house all day, and there are occasionally nights where DH and I were both away.

If you can't, then you either need a different job or no pets

YellowMakesMeSmile · 05/01/2018 22:34

Food, hotel and travel costs yes but not pets or childcare as those are personal to the employee and not something the employer has control of.

BishBoshBashBop · 05/01/2018 22:36

No sorry I don't.

If you know travel etc is part if the job then you accept that when you take it.

altiara · 05/01/2018 22:38

Our policy specifically says no childcare expenses will be reimbursed. Very painful when DC were in nursery at nearly £70 a day and nursery policy was you couldn’t swop days yet I had to be flexible myself and swap days.
I do agree with you, but I suppose it would have to be defined as to what was “expected” for travel/overnight stays and what wasn’t- then I guess the company would add it into your contract so it’s all expected.

It would be nice for excessive travel to not be classed as a jolly and be recognised as a pain in the arse! I’ve had 2 trips this year to lovely capital cities but the planning I have to do to coordinate School runs, childcare, lunches, pet care etc is just painful. On top of that the business trips are hard work being professional all of the time, long hours and then my actual work is piling up and as I work part time, I have even less opportunity to catch up. You’ve inspired me to say no to the next thing.

Skiiltan · 05/01/2018 22:39

I think there are some tax issues. HMRC defines what expenses can be reimbursed without tax being due on the payments. I get angrier about the length of time it takes to get costs reimbursed. My employer sets a deadline of the 17th of the month to get reimbursed at the end of that month. If your claim reaches the finance office on the 18th you'll be waiting 6 weeks to get repaid and won't receive interest.

A big problem I encountered a year or so ago was travelling abroad for two weeks and having expenses reimbursed only on the basis of an official exchange rate, taking no account of fees I had to pay on transactions in a different currency or losses on exchanges. I ended up hugely out of pocket for a trip that was utterly miserable anyway. It now looks like I'm going to have to make the same trip again later this year. I am willing to accept that the trip is part of my job and it's nobody else's problem if I don't enjoy it, but I do object to the amount of money it costs me.

AlexanderHamilton · 05/01/2018 22:39

If employers paid those sort of expenses it would be classed as a benefit in kind & you would be taxed on it. For some people on the threshold it could even send them
Into the next tax category (& potential loss of child benefit).

The type & amount of expenses is strictly regulated by HMRC.

lljkk · 05/01/2018 22:40

"Childcare, pet care/kennels are just part and parcel of working life"
^ That.

DH might have to take time off work if I go on a trip (or visa versa), to look after kids & house & pets. I don't get to claim for DH's lost work hours... shame! He's much better paid than me :).

Wineasaurous · 05/01/2018 22:40

I can't help but feel that the expenses system is designed with the assumption that it's a man traveling while his wife dutifully stays at home.

How on Earth have you reached this assumption? A woman can have no children or pets too you know

NewYearNiki · 05/01/2018 22:41

I don’t even get lunch paid for when away from home.

When would you ever not need to eat lunch anyway? It doesnt have to cost a fortune.

Imagine if the NHS had to pay for out of hours child care for very Dr, nurse, et al on night shifts. It would would cripple it overnight.

YABU. You know the nature of the job when you take it on. You choose your job and to have pets and children and then want someone else to pay.

PiffleandWiffle · 05/01/2018 22:42

If a trip away doesn't suit one of my staff she'll say & I'll send someone else. I notice that my male staff never have this problem.

When I'm away work'll pay the fuel/ticket to the airport, parking, meals, hotel & Taxis/trains.

Anything else is my responsibility & rightly so....

BoomBoomsCousin · 05/01/2018 22:45

I can't help but feel that the expenses system is designed with the assumption that it's a man traveling while his wife dutifully stays at home.

Well, it was designed at a time when that was pretty much the rule. I think a lot of the structure of working life has failed to keep up with changing gender roles.

NotGoodMika · 05/01/2018 22:46

Oh Wineasaurous, you are being deliberately obtuse.
OP feels that her employer is not taking into consideration her family circumstances, and is assuming she has someone for evening child/ pet care, whereas in reality she may not.
And having been in business I think OP is correct, in so much as they assume you have a partner to take care of childcare duties, and in reality don’t consider this at all..