To think that employers should pay all out of pocket expenses for business trips?

[cantaffordtogotowork]

AIBU to think that if you incur additional expenses for traveling overnight / significantly outside of normal business hours, your employer should pay these costs?

Specifically,

• Overnight child care - if you're working normal hours you'd just pay for after school care, but for business trips overnight care is hard to find and expensive if you're a single parent with limited support
• Pet care - if you're working normal hours you'd feed your own pets, walk your own dog etc. I have a very obliging friend who often does this for me (reciprocal arrangement), but if they're unavailable when I'm on a business trip it costs me £40 per night (approx 40% of my take home daily pay) purely because I'm on a business trip (London prices, unavoidably so)

Obviously meals, train fares etc are covered. I can even get a glass of wine FFS. I can't help but feel that the expenses system is designed with the assumption that it's a man traveling while his wife dutifully stays at home.

AIBU to think that you should be able to expense such costs that are incurred purely because you're going the extra mile for your employer?

When I split up from DP and I had to travel abroad frequently, my employer paid all extra childcare costs including paying petrol/expenses for grandparents travelling from the North to London to look after my DC. I wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise, they knew that and I was very grateful that they were so understanding. This was a big US company and wasn't an official arrangement - they just told me to expense it as 'travel costs'.

Tbh I have never heard of people claiming childcare expenses for overnight trips. The people I know where this is a major part of their job have to coordinate with their partners to ensure one of them is available.

If you're a single parent (who's ex is not on the scene), or widow etc, unfortunately I assume you probably can't take a job with regular travel unless you negotiate childcare cover as part of your package.

Pet expenses I think you must have to accept, in the same way as a business trip could mean you miss a yoga class you've prepaid for etc.

Oh NotGoodMika, are you deliberately making assumptions?
Being currently in business, I have to say I disagree.
It's none of my employees business what I have or haven't got at home, nor is it their problem. I understood the role when I took it on.

I think YABU to expect this. Don’t accept a job that involves working at times where childcare is an issue. It’s personal situation that is nothing to do with your job/conference and not your employers concern

I agree. Additional childcare on days I'm not contracted to work - where I'm trying to go the extra mile as OP says - should not be "just part and parcel of working life", it should be claimable. If you receive 3 days' salary you shouldn't be expected to pay out for 4 days' childcare. My boss's boss just says "can't you ask your mum to take them?" Nothing sexist at all there then...

Surely if men have the dutiful wife at home the wife can have the dutiful husband at home?

The answer is it depends on what your contract says. These are the things to check for before accepting a job.

henry
It wasn't an official policy because you'd have been clobbered for tax if it was!
HMRC rules don't allow employers to pay for childcare during normal work

Surely it depends if late meetings and overnight travel are in your job description. If they are, the expectation would be that you took on the job with the ability to do the job in full. If travel isn’t part of your job then it would seem reasonable you are reimbursed for out of pocket expenses -of which childcare would be one.

Technically speaking the company were commiting tax fraud.

When I took this job (and when the small beings came into my life) my personal circumstances were very different - most noticeably I had a DP whose job didn't involve travel and could keep things going at home when I had to travel. (Un)fortunately DP is now ex DP, so that option no longer exists.

It's not as simple as moving jobs - overnight travel is endemic in the (very niche) sector I work in. I've been working in this sector ever since I graduated, so I'm not really qualified to do anything else. If I was prompted twice more, to HoD, I'd escape almost all overnight travel, but that may take a while...

(And I ought to add that the number of overnight trips I'm expected to do has grown substantially since I took on the job - targets have grown but staffing has not)

YABU to expect childcare / petcare / elderly parent care. That really isn't the employer's issue.
You accept, or turn down a job if you can't make it work with your other commitments.

As another poster has pointed out, can you imagine the cost just to the NHS of every Nurse, Dr, therapist, paramedic, porter, etc.,etc.etc. claiming childcare expenses for all their work ?

x posted.
Then you have to look into either paying for an overnight nanny, or arranging your ex dp's contacts around the times you are traveling.

Accomodation/travel/food etc yes.

Childcare/petcare? No, wouldn't expect that at all.

It's none of your company's business or responsibility what children or pets you have at home. You should have been given a job description at he beginning and if you can't fulfill that then you don't take the job. Their only obligation is to let you know what the job entails and to give aporopriate notice.

Oh, and if course expenses related directly to you. Not your private entourage.

I would expect an employer to pay extra personal costs the employee incurred . I wouldn't count childcare and pet costs in that. Because these aren't usually the employer's responsibility. I wouldn't expect lunch to be paid for as they would be eating lunch anyway. But a lot of employers do pay for lunches.

When you are on jury service you can claim for a child-minder to look after your children or a dog walker to look after your pets.

Seems shabby that an employer would refuse to do similar. Perhaps they have simply overlooked this and need a short sharp kick nudging to review their expenses policy.

Perspic, jury duty is a completely different situation! It's compulsory and SAHM's whose job is to mind their kids are being taken away from that with no choice.

HMRC defines what expenses can be reimbursed without tax being due on the payments

Yes they define what is eligible and in some cases the amount you can claim. Anything outside that is consider pay and is taxable at your highest rate. Some elements of non travel OOO work may be claimable - eg dinner for late working, taxi rather than public transport etc.

Don’t accept a job that involves working at times where childcare is an issue.

Dear job centre, this job will sometimes entail out of hours childcare so I can't take it. People also take jobs and circumstances change.
There is another thread running where someone is being asked to travel despite mobility not being in their contract - one of the responses was "all non minimum wage jobs require travel" which was a bizarre answer.

It comes down to what is in your contract. If some out of hours/travel is part of your T&C then you have to work around it. However a good employer who wants to keep you over time will try to work with you in a "give and take" manner. Employers are required to consider flexibility if requested and this may be less travel for a period of time (we do exactly that).

NHS of every Nurse, Dr, therapist, paramedic, [claiming expenses]

Well those who are temps/self employed can (although not usually childcare). Those jobs would all have shifts built into their contracts so nights would then be normal hours.

It isn't that different. If you are incurring expenses that you do not normally incur in the course of your work, then you can claim them.

Doing my tax return this year I did wonder why childcare isn't a deuctible cost. I wonder if it would change if all men genuinely viewed childcare and costs as their responsibility ...

So if employers should be made to pay the cost of pet sitters, should they be allowed to ask at interviews if candidates have a pet before offering them a job..?

I don't think you should be able to claim childcare or pet care costs. Travel is a part of many jobs. If you can't travel arguably you don't take the job.

I feel insisting on payment of these expenses means we're opening single parents to potential discrimination where employers will be reluctant to hire them if they think there are going to be additional costs...a step back rather than forwards.

If we go down the route why should a employer pay for certian things because they cannot control and or are part of normal life it will greatly reduce what should be allowed to claim for.

fore example everyone needs to eat so why should the employer pay for food / drink expenses the employee would need to eat and drink anyway why can they not make a pack lunch pack their own for / pay for food out of their own pocket like at lunch break during normal hours etc.

Though their are crap companies out there that will not pay for accommodation above the rate of a out of season camp site (no I am not kidding a previous employer wanted me to travel to japan but said they would only cover the cost of a nearby camp site out of season cost (for the record it was not even out of season) which was £15 a night) despite the fact the cheapest place was £90 a night but was 4 hours away from the office.. They expected people to be £2000+ out of pocket saying it was a trip of the life time and they could not see why no one wanted to do it (they also would only pay the max of a short haul flight and employees were expected to cover the shortfall aak they were only subsedasing 1/5 of the flight costs of the cheapest possible flight.

Thankfully they went bust as the were CF of the highest order.