Can't see friend without kids

[saskiathewitch]

I don't have children (yet, though love them, want to and am a very active auntie!) and would value the thoughts of parents on this. My closest friend and her DP are insistent that they will only meet up with us if their two young children can come too. In general they seem to think things are 'more fun' if they involve children, and they spend much of their time with new friends they have made through their children's schools, doing child-based activities. Cool, that's what happens, I get it. Obviously sometimes it's nice to see the whole family, as we have known their kids since they were born and often babysit for them. But not always - specially as their children aren't the easiest in restaurants/public spaces so the day often ends up being very stressful.

Our friends don't seem to sense our unhappiness. We have tried inviting our friends to adult events in the evening (with months of notice) and they always turn us down and suggest an alternative occasion with kids involved at a time when we'd rather be in our pyjamas (early on a Saturday morning for example). We have been round to theirs a few times in the evening to make things easier for them, but the kids often stay up late and the tv is always on and it's hard to talk. It all feels very one way. We are fed up of never being able to get a word in edgeways or have adult time with our friends. Should we just accept the friendship is over or that we can only see them with the children? The other part to this is I feel hurt I've been pretty much dropped by my friend because I'm childless so perhaps I am BU.

I think it may be time to ease back on the friendship as it seems that it is a higher priority to you than your friend.

Reading some of these messages from people who like to spend all their time with their DC makes it seem like the alternative is a night on the piss in a club home the early hours wasted etc etc. I am sure I am not the only one who is largely past clubbing nights out but still would like child free time with my friends to go to dinner, or shopping or to see a film.

I wouldn't say the friendship is over but the meeting up part certainly is for now. Keep in touch through social media etc... and when you do have children maybe the meet ups could start up again as you may feel differently at this point.

I too am staggered that there is no middle ground. Either child attached at the hip, or pissed in a gutter at 3am. Errr no. I do lots with ds's, go swimming with other mums, Thorpe Park etc. But I can also go out with other couples, or female friends, and enjoy that equally.

5 is still young, may still want a parent at bedtime etc - and will have been younger than five on other occasions the OP refers to. I suspect they will move on from this in time. OP doesn’t have to wait for them if she doesn’t want to!
I wouldn’t pay the £50 for a babysitter for anything less than an anniversary/major event, not a meal in a pub. Have no friends who would sit as they all have parents locally who do it for them, no babysitting circle required.
I’d always prefer to see a friend without their partner, nevermind children!

I agree, Frouby, some of these posts make me feel really boring lol, and I don't think that's fair at all. We just can't leave our DDs with babysitters, so we don't go out as a couple with friends. We both go out individually, which I actually like, as I do enjoy meeting up with friends. When DH and I have gone out, it's only been as a couple, and that's important as we get very little time together.

Do people really not go out together without the kids for years ?? I am in my late 50s, I have seven children. I know a LOT of parents and cannot ever recall meeting a single parent like this !

Almost our entire conversation was taken up planning child free dinners, fun evening activities, parties, with kids in bed at 7 on the dot and babysitter/grand parents/ older girl from next door in to watch dcs . (Who were trained early on that bed meant sleep until morning regime) So babysitter had nothing to do except watch tv.
The routine of bedtime as small toddlers was essential to our free time with husband in the evening. I would have gone completely insane had I not had a large proportion of my time away from kids, and with good adult conversation.

The marriages that didn't survive were always the ones where the couples spent no time together without children. They stopped being a couple and became parents only.

Well dp and I have been together for 11 years. I had dd from a previous relarionship who was 2. We now have ds who is 4.

We have been out 5 times since ds was born. That's out without the dcs. We are as solid as a couple as we always have been.

My dsis is the same as me. Her dd has epilepsy so either her or her dp has to be around.

My other dsis who does go out with friends regularly with her dp and utilises her in laws as babysitters isn't in a happy relationship.

If a couple wants to make the effort to go out together they will. But some just don't want to. I don't particularly. I won't leave ds with a teenage babysitter. I only have 1 dsis I would be happy to leave him with and her dd has epilepsy so until she is seizure free I wouldn't do that as if she has to.go to hospital it means one of them staying behind. My mum is ill with a heart condition and I would worry about her taking ill.

We have lots of good friends. Some with dcs, some with older dcs, some without. We meet up for childfriendly meals and days out. We have BBQs and curry nights at home. We went on holiday with another family this year. We sit outside a local pub with a park at the side in the summer and one of us drives and meet friends there. We go to our local pub with an outside playarea and have a meal.

We socialize lots really. But it suits us better that way. It doesn't mean we dont care about our friends or want to be in each others pockets constantly. It just means we don't at this point want to go to pubs and restaurants that involve babysitters.

I don't judge anyone who does. They are lucky if they have regular childfree time. But we don't and don't expect to be judged either.

It's the 'child won't be left' thing I don't buy from most people I seem to hear this from these days.

I am wondering if it's cultural and/or generational. The question my US friends are more likely to ask is not at what age did you get a babysitter for the first time, but at what age can they be left alone for a night out?! And this is in the NY metropolitan area, not a small town. It's not seen as irresponsible to leave a child 10-12 years old home alone when you go to a local restaurant with friends on an evening. We discussed this when I was back for a visit. Funny that they didn't seem to know any children who 'can't be left' - but it is something you hear lots and lots over here.

Okay - I am setting aside the medical condition situations. But school aged children with no health/developmental concerns? Seriously? The parents may be deciding they don't want to leave them and would prefer to socialise in another way. That's their decision - but 'own' it. Don't blame it on the kids, they're not making that call, it's your decision as the adult. This is the part that I do judge, the deflection onto the child.

We have a lot of friends who never had children who have admitted - not hammered home but acknowledged - that it was a bit sad for them we aren't available in the same way as we were, both emotionally and in terms of time. I do try to bear this in mind as much as I can. We're still not free for weekends away as couples but if a friends were simply asking for the odd night out just grown ups I can certainly see how it would be hurtful to say I could never, ever under any circumstances manage it by the time my kids were the age mentioned in the OP. I think it is really unreasonable for the understanding to only work one way, which seems to be happening here. It doesn't have to be a babysitter AND night out. They could do babysitting and an adults only meal at the OPs place.

Do people really not go out together without the kids for years ??

Some don't, so what? Some people get married and have children quite late, so they have led a child-free life with a high disposable income for years. Then they take a break and concentrate on family life for a few years, until the kids are old enough to be left on their own. In the meantime, they do things as a family, with other people who do the same.
What's wrong with that? Someone spends the week working, barely seeing the kids if at all, so wants to spend the weekend with them. So what? It doesn't mean the couple is not close.

Some families put the kids to bed late afternoon, and everybody is up at dawn. Others put them to bed later and wake up at reasonable hour in the morning. Each to their own.

so they have led a child-free life with a high disposable income for years

I don't see spending time with friends or with a partner as something you can "bank" and then not want any for years.

It's more like sleep than it is like money - even if you had lots last year you still want regular doses this year.

I think it is very important to have things in your life that don't just revolve around your DC and DH - I meet many older people whose families have grown up, their partner has died and they haven't had many friends over the years and are now really, really lonely. It is so important to have a wide range of interests, activities and friends.

You might like being in a 'little bubble' of family and child centred activities at the moment, but please think about the future.

Empty nest syndrome is much worse for those couples who have not made the effort to maintain friendships and interests outside the family too.

as something you can "bank" and then not want any for years.
Except there are. People grow up and some priorities change

You can still see friends, but with kids around. People have diner p
arties, bbq, parties where kids disappear together leaving the adults alone. Having family time doesn't mean being cut from the world.

Some people can drop the kids to family at the drop of a hat, go on holiday and go for weekends away all the time. Others don't, and some don't even want to.

You could compare kids growing up with people reaching retirement: some might be miserable and not having a clue what to do with themselves, whilst others are having the time of their life despite saying good-bye to a career they loved.

Making different choices about your family doesn't mean you are miserable.

YANBU OP.. People constantly imposing their kids onto every social occasion, sulking if their children aren't invited to.a wedding, and convinced that everyone wants their children around all of the time are annoying and inconsiderate.

Oh and I agree that people like this need to think about the future, when their children will have their own lives and interests or will have left home. Some parents seem to forget that day will come (and faster than you think) and end up being the kind of people that are constantly living through their adult children, and have absolutely no life of their own.

I've seen it both ways, where even we've been friends with the couple individually, they will only come as a two.
Now that we have kids, they want to socialise at unsociable hours whereas my kids are small (we don't have babysitters or family etc nearby) and if they say they're coming at X time they turn up hours later and leave really late, not even something they did before our kids came along. Made it harder to socialise as I find it hard to just let go and I end up going way out of my way for the couple and not putting my kids to bed properly so I've eased off with meetups.

YANBU

I didn't say anyone was miserable, I said that having spent time without children for years doesn't equate to now not needing or wanting any childfree time. How much time you spent doing fun things before you had children is irrelevant.

On the other hand there was a friend I'd go to on my own before I had kids and she had multiple. They would wreck my home and abed just sit and be oblivious. Books would get ripped, they'd open doors and rush around to the rest of my home. This isn't something my own kids too as I try to show them how not to be and even in our own home we don't go opening all cabinets and banging the doors and so on.
At that time I'd be running after them in 3 different directions trying to stop their food from falling all over the carpet etc but their mum would do nothing. Then I had my first kid a few years later and she wouldn't come alone. I said to her I am just having a little adult gathering as I'm feeling knocked out but really I was thinking I have no idea how I'd chase her kids with a newborn and feeling sore etc.
She flat out told me no as her DH couldn't look after the kids alone. They lived two doors away!! And I used to see him often taken them to his parents so it was a lie. The friendship never continued after that.

It's just odd really. If there's someone I want to make effort for I'm happy for DH to keep them at home or take them to the park. What is hard is is socialising together as we have no one to leave our kids with and they're too small and clingy to be left with a stranger, they just don't cope and we've tried.

The best way right now is to socialise individually with them unless you're a couple who only go to socialise together and not alone which is the same thing as them bringing their kids in a way.

I totally understand- I'm childless & single at 41 although I would like a baby I can't go it alone for health reasons.

One of my best friends is childfree but has regular migraines so can rarely meet up.
My younger sister is childfree & I do socialise with her but she likes to keep her family (me) & friends separate.

Everyone else I know has children! And only wants to socialise with their children there on the whole.

My friends did get babysitters for my birthday so that was a decent late night but apart from that my old social life of bars, clubs, adult-friendly restaurants, adult films at the cinema - well that's over sadly..

One of my friends has nothing but CBeebies on really loud when I go round & brings her daughter out to everything, I like her daughter but rarely get to chat to my friend as we're constantly entertaining a 3 yr old. Her husband would happily babysit ffs!!

Even if I do online dating the men my age usually have children.
I've just started seeing a man who is single father to a 13 yr old.. hopefully he can babysit himself at that age & hopefully is easy to get along with...

New people I meet think I'm odd because I've never married/ had children and ask the dreaded 'why?' To which I try to change the subject as it's just too painful to discuss.

While I'm childless I would like a decent social life while I still feel young & lively!!
I feel so bored & fed up.

This thread in bonkers!

So because people chose not to socialise much when they have young dcs at home they will end up sad and lonely and living through their adult dcs?

I do have plenty of interests outside the home thanks. I have horses and compete. I see friends during the day. I see friends occasionally in an evening when dp is at home. I have a huge allotment I do and manage to socialise up there too. I visit family and friends with dcs. I read an awful lot and also run a business.

I don't live through my kids now. The only thing we don't do is leave ds with babysitters. Unless it's a very, very special occasion. That doesn't mean we are sad bastards with no friends or social life. It just means our social life is different to some other peoples social life.

There is no right or wrong. I don't feel morally obliged to change the way we do things to provide an evenings entertainment or company for someone else. If someone wants to spend time with us there are loads of ways we can do that. Ds is in bed for 7.30pm. I can even offer a childfree evening at home if they want.

Plenty of people lead lovely, fulfilled lives without having adult only evenings out for a few years when dcs are small.

Plenty of people lead lovely, fulfilled lives without having adult only evenings out for a few years when dcs are small.

That's fine, however you have to accept that your friendship group will change and not everyone wants to socialise with your DC. I think that is the point. It has to be give and take on all sides.

It shouldn't be that those who are childless do all the giving and those with DC all the taking, which is what it seems in the OPs case.

you have to accept that your friendship group will change

that's not an issue. It happens all the time anyway. Not everybody force their kids onto others. It's easy to decline invitations for adults only when you can't make it.

Bringing children when they are not invited or expected is not reasonable.

The issue here seems to be that the OP does see the wife on her own, she's sad that they don't go out to adult only social events together. It takes a lot of planning to ask a babysitter, and I don't like to take advantage of my DM too much at 78. My DDs are hard work so I can only really leave them with people who know what to expect.

I don't see what the issue is with not doing things together, we're not joined at the hip??