To think it's really cheeky to remove Christmas flowers from the altar for your wedding

[user1485342611]

A good friend of mine is on the flower team for our local church. They did the altar up beautifully for Christmas. A wedding had been booked in the church for a few days after Christmas and they wanted to remove all the flowers and replace with their own arrangements. It was explained to the B&G that once the Church was decorated for Christmas it had to stay that way until 12th night.

The couple kicked up an almighty fuss and said there was no way they wanted red and white flowers on the altar during their wedding. Then, with no permission, they went into the church, removed all the Christmas arrangements from the altar and left them at the side of the Church. They then replaced them with their own flowers, and brought the flowers away with them after the wedding, leaving the altar (and the steps outside which were also decorated for Christmas) bare.

They told no one what they had done and when it was discovered my friend and her team (all voluntary workers) who had spent hours getting the Church ready for Christmas, then had to give up more of their time restoring the altar to the way it was. They were absolutely furious.

AIBU to think this was unbelievably cheeky and to also not understand why you would get married at Christmas time and then object to the Church being decorated in a Christmassy fashion?

I think the vicar should have arranged this better in view of a wedding taking place. I do not think I would want a 'blood and bandages' flower scheme at a wedding

Alternatively, I think the couple should have arranged this better in view of Christmas taking place. If they didn't like the colour scheme of the Christmas flowers, they could have gone to another venue. It wasn't sprung on them, they were told at the outset.

Decorations, especially plants should not be taken down until the 12th night otherwise it is a sign of bad luck. (...) it is a religious belief

No, it's not. If anything it would be superstition. You should really read the OP's posts.

IWanna and could your brother have been married in a comparable private venue for less than £700?

If churches truly only want genuinely religious people to marry in them, they have to stop taking the money from couples who aren't.

I don't think that's the consensus of the thread; rather that churches should be inclusive and welcoming of non-worshippers and that in return those people should respect the fact that the church has an important life beyond its purpose as a wedding venue.

Decorations, especially plants should not be taken down until the 12th night otherwise it is a sign of bad luck. Not everyone believes in this, which is absolutely ok. But it is a religious belief and if they want to get married in a church then they should have respected this. I would be furious!!!!

That is not a religious belief (in the church of England at least). In quite a lot of traditions the Christmas season now extends as Epiphany from 6 Jan until Candlemas, 2 Feb.

@user1485342611 if the bride and groom completely removed the church Christmas flowers and didn't replace them after the ceremony can't they be charged? Perhaps the answer is for the church to include a caveat for weddings at Christmas / Easter to ensure that the church's own flowers are not stolen / removed / damaged.

I do agree that they ought to have returned the church flowers after their wedding.
I suspect what happened is that it didn't occur to them when booking their wedding that they wouldn't be able to have their own flowers. They asked at the last minute, the church was not accommodating and I would guess that the b&g felt church was being arsey for no reason. Which is why they moved them anyway and didn't put them back.
They probably had no idea that the Christmas flowers were of religious significance.
Maybe much of what went wrong here was in how all parties communicated. I honestly believe the church ought to have allowed them their own flowers for the service and worked with them to enable everyone was happy.

I've not read everything but I find it totally disrespectful. Our vicar has a very strong belief that to remove the flowers etc before the 12th night is very unlucky. If the vicar/priest marrying the couple had the same belief then he is nbu to say no to removing the flowers along with 101 other reasons I can think of. If the CFs didn't like the colour scheme they should have chosen a different date or Venue.

Bux, honestly I don't know. But sil is religious and wanted a church ceremony. It wasn't a decision made due to cost. DB would have been happy with register office wedding, I think. He just wanted to get married and didn't much care where it took place.

'My brother paid about £700 in church fees for his recent wedding - that is not a small donation. I can see why people paying this sort of money feel like customers with purchasing rights. '

It's still a church and even if not any venue has its own rules and stipulations. Don't like it, find somewhere else to marry! No one forces a person to use a pretty church as a setting for their wedding.

Iwannasee- the OP explained that when couples book a wedding, they are told to contact the flower arranging team by a specified date to discuss their requirements. The OP also gave examples of when couples have done this, and the team have been accommodating where possible. This B and G did not contact the team by the agreed date and then kicked up a fuss that they couldn’t have what they wanted.

Honestly, I don’t get what some people are struggling with here!

It's hilarious to me in this day and age that a couple would be so unreasonable because they are superstitious about "blood and bandages" FGS. That was something my exes mad old granny freaked out about but I thought was long since forgotten.

They asked at the last minute, the church was not accommodating and I would guess that the b&g felt church was being arsey for no reason. Which is why they moved them anyway and didn't put them back.

That would be an excuse not a reason.

Either way, and I doubt it wasn't explained to them (and in any case they had been told initially to get in contact with the flower people), they were the arsey ones.

If course, you're absolutely correct Cecilia. Why would the church consider that its adherance to religious requirements take precedence over the wishes of a bride and groom's 'big day'? Because after all, the congregation only attend at least weekly whereas the bride and groom may have attended three times to hear the banns read and then on the day of the wedding. So what? 5, maybe 6 hours in total. Of course their wishes should have precedence over the religious sensitivities of those who are in attendance for at least 50 hours a year, as well as offering their time for the benefit of the church. Right.

I am catholic and have always taken decorations down on the 6th for the epiphany.

I didn't know the specific decorations were important and I had a lot of religion in my upbringing. I think the church is always going to be onto a loser if it expects people who don't 'get' religion to understand the significance of everything that goes on there. Which brings me back to either being all inclusive because wellcoming outsiders is a good thing to do, do it at non profit level and then you can insist on everything done the church's way or accept that doing weddings for non religious people is a business transaction, make profit from the fees and be accommodating of the 'customer's' wishes.
I'm not sure you can mix it all up and for it to work. It hasn't here - church members are upset because they feel disrespected by people who don't understand significance of the flowers and b&g weren't happy either and probably felt the church was inflexible for no reason.

churches should be inclusive and welcoming of non-worshippers and that in return those people should respect the fact that the church has an important life beyond its purpose as a wedding venue.
This.

DH and I married in our church (and perks of it not being anglican means that we tend not to have lots of people queuing to attend banns services, getting married and then vanishing so situations like the OP don't occur).
Our church flowers are donated by the congregation and arranged by the flower team.
We had our wedding on the Saturday and donated the flowers to the church for Sunday and as long as they would last and pepople could enjoy them.

'My brother paid about £700 in church fees for his recent wedding - that is not a small donation. I can see why people paying this sort of money feel like customers with purchasing rights
They are not customers.
They are opting to have a religious service in a place of worship.
If they think of themselves as VIPs where the whole church revolves arouns them then maybe they shouldn't be getting married in a church. Churches are for the community and are often ran by volunteers, not so some CF can treat it lile they would a country house wedding venue.

A religious marriage service is not a 'set me up for pretty instagramable pictures and let me be a princess'. It is a religious service in a religious building.

On our wedding day the church had to be opened, the Minster had to be around on a Saturday, they had to do a rehearsal the night before, they had to open early on the morning for the choir to rehearse, the stewards had to be in (all volunteers!), the building was cleaned (all by volunteers), the building needed heating and electicity and so on.

But then the sorts of people who view themselves as customers and feel hard done to when a place of worship is a place of worship are the types who probabbly couldn't care less if the worshiping element of the church was actually carrying the whole building, maintenance, opening etc. After all, wedding is all about being a star for a day.

This is all a bit foreign to me, literally, to be so entitled, but it's probably because the weddings I'm most familiar with are US Catholic ones. At least one of you has to be a confirmed Catholic and you have to go to pre-wedding classes and inform the priest of your intentions at least 4 months in advance. It weeds out a lot of folks just shopping round for a pretty backdrop. Also you'd be aware of how the church is decorated in accordance with the liturgical calendar. My sister and her husband are both Catholics, but wanted to marry in the diocese cathedral as it was central to both their hometowns. They also wanted the priest who married my parents to marry them. It was donation based, but they gave about $500 one and that was 25 years ago.

The flowers were left in the church by prior arrangement for the congregation to enjoy as long as they lasted. They married on a Saturday at 5pm followed by a reception at my dad's golf club - no two tiers, everyone came for the meal followed by dancing.

This is a bit cheeky. I go to church and know that people in the congregation work hard to clean, do repairs and do the flowers etc. My friend is on the flower team and someone has to go and get all the flowers then work hard to make the arrangements. Quite often these people have jobs and families too.
The proper thing to do would have been to speak to the vicar or the flower team and come to an arrangement so as not to dump someone's hard work at the alter.
Bit off took but our church has tinsel and coloured lights all around and multi-coloured decs on the trees. Although this isn't my personal preference, the church looks beautiful and I'd love it decorated for Christmas.

bit off topic not off took

What horrible, thoughtless, selfish people.

I thought that decorations were taken down at Epiphany, which does have meaning to Christians! Or whenever the church wants them taken down! Its their building!

Send them a bill!

Finding it a bit bizarre that some people are saying their vicar etc thinks X,Y,Z is unlucky/superstitious. Our Minister says superstition and luck have nothing to do with Christianity (and believing it is tantamount to worshiping idols)

The b&g were rude not to observe the rules.

Not good is it, but you may find the Bride and groom agreed to restore the flowers but on the day they themselves they where wrapped up in the excitement and forgot to relay this to there helpers / friends relatives who removed the flowers. I suspect it was a communication problem and not done in spite. But I usually give people the benefit of the doubt.

I wanna. Just over £400 would have been for the service - the cost of the vicar, maintains the church heating it etc, the verger, the licence, the banns etc the rest probably paid for the services of them organist and potentially bells and choir. So the cost is fair enough. But the church is there to provide for the spiritual needs of tgecongregation not act as a photo backdrop and as such the capitalist ideology of if I pay for it I can have whatever I want does not apply. Maybe if I skip a bit extra in the collection plate I can start requesting hymns?As the national church people (subject to certain criteria) have the right to marry in the Church of England for which there is a fee ( I believe RC churches operate a different system).