Is my friend over tidy or am I a MF (messy fucker)?

[holdthepressitsmummers]

NC for this just in case.

So we have a ds who's 4. Friends have ds 4 and ds 2.5. We all hang out together a lot.

Friend is always super tidy. Kids have very few toys (fine btw, ds has too much and I'm in the process of paring down) and they are organised impeccably. (I also like to keep ds's toys very organised, not a problem.)

But when we go to play, even if there are other kids there too, only one toy is allowed to be out at once. If the kids want to get another toy out they all need to put the toy that's put away first. I agree with this to an extent. If ds tips a bunch of stuff out or get his marble maze out or whatever he's not just allowed to tear through toys until everything is out.

If they ever ask to get puzzles or duplo etc out they get told it just for special times and is too much mess.

It puts me on edge the whole bloody time because she stomps around morning about how things aren't in their right place.

Last time we were there she told dh off for eating take away on the sofa (they have open plan living room kitchen diner thing.) Dh was really embarrassed and annoyed. He's an adult he doesn't tend to spill his food. (Unless drunk .)

I was saying how ds got a load of Lego fro Christmas and she said 'oh we'll never be letting the kids get Lego, it's way too much mess to tidy up.'

She also won't let them do any painting or arts and crafts at home apart from pencil drawing. Because 'my furniture is too nice for stuff like that.' Obviously I'd love to ban painting and such too as it is a massive sodding mess but they need to do stuff like this no?

Is this how most people do things? I thought I was pretty uptight about tidiness and cleanliness as I've suffer from OCD and anxiety at times and have battled to lighten up on the mess ds and dh make and see them as normal life rather than getting me in to a downwards spiral of organising and cleaning.

I'll make ds clean up a little as he goes along in the day and tidy toys away at the end. Have I let go too much?!

I’ve never understood the ‘one toy at a time’ rule. My kids often play with different types of toys together like hotwheels on the toot toot track, Lego with imaginext, kitchen stuff with the shop stuff etc. I always thought that was how kids were supposed to play?

holdthepressits

I’m from Switzerland.

Yy. My family:

No plastic, recycling, my sister is vegan, some of my cousins and aunts go to food outlets (not because they’re poor, btw), to ‘no plastic food stores’, Patagonia and climbing lovers, do yoga, my uncle is a Buddhist, an other uncle is a lawyer and a pracircioner of homeopathy, my mother does expressive dance, many of them are politically active and part of various sharing organisations (cars, clothes etc)...

We weren’t allowed to use black, wear black, have coloured hair, play football, read the newspaper and many other things in the Waldorfschool I went to....

(My father’s family is super different. They’re much more ‘corporate’, love fishing, hunting etc 😂 I got the best of both worlds imo).

Ime there are various kinds of people at Waldorfschools. People like my family, then those that simply let their kids do anything, those that are genuinely anthroposophic (and are usually super strict and imo kind of cultish), people that have not quite ‘typical’ children etc...

But I’m not the person to have an objective discussion about Waldorfschools with. (My experience wasn’t good)

One toy out at a time is SO BORING.

My dc always combined different toys in their play. They should be allowed to relax and play freely without all these restrictions.

I like a tidy house too but mess is easily cleared away.

He's running back over the last five years trying to figure out who else he may have offended.

Poor man. Some might have been a bit annoyed but I honestly doubt that he truly offended many,

Some people might use trays to eat on the sofa? I think I’ve seen that in a movie or a tv series?

One toy at a time is ok.

Particularly messy play I'd confine to a room with no carpet.

I get what she is saying.
One toy at the time is Ok but NOT when you have other children around. Can you see the child taking out a car out and no other toy being allowed? What are the other child(ren) to do I the mean time?

The Lego stuff and the painting is crazy.
I get that one who’d find that hard to deal with. I use to dread it when glitter etc.. was coming out.
But stopping them from playing with those things is also stopping them to learn a lot of things :(:(

On the Lego front - stuck to masses of duplo for many many years, we managed until the youngest was 8 so much easier to clear up!

Also agree with dancer that not being allowed to take several toys at the time is squashing the creativity form the children.
It’s saying that a toy has to be play with in a certain way. No other way is allowed etc....
It’s a shame with children that age who should be able to encourage to use imaginative play.

You think you've seen lap trays on sofas on the TV? My, how shocking, surely this can't truly exist?!

DH and I, and most of our friends, all eat on trays on the sofa. My parents bought us posh lap trays for Christmas a few years ago! But this is because none of us live in places big enough for a dining table. Our living room barely fits the sofa.

DH and I want to have a proper dining table in future though, and were both brought up in households where you only ate at the table, which I think is correct with young children. But really, it's not something to goggle at unless you're vair posh and can't fathom such things!

I was pretty much like her for limiting toys in the living room as a mother, not so much as a grandmother probably because its not a daily thing.

I think you need a compromise, mine could paint and glue at the kitchen table but that all went away if they moved on to something else. Kids are creative and express themselves in school and nursery but they don't have to have access to everything at once.

As for the takeaway on the sofa no way wtf not then and not now, not if there is a table to eat from.

Some of it sounds a bit extreme but I'd be livid if someone ate food on my sofa. I teach my kids to eat at the dinner table and I think it's rude to assume that its ok in someone else's house to sit on a sofa and eat a meal without asking.

Glitter and paints, I allow it at the table from about 4 onwards when they don't just chuck it everywhere. Before that, well, that's what the playgroups, childminders and nursery was for. But I did make a big effort to ensure I took them every week somewhere they could creatively make mess and also bought outdoor chalk, water, sand etc but no, I agree I couldn't have dealt with all that indoors over the walls, chair, floor etc.

Lego I do let out but I would have to put anything with 'bits' away before anything else came out so lego, puzzles etc don't get muddled up.

The thing I find extreme is having lego only for 'special times' or not letting a few different toys out that are not 'in bits' out at the same time. But then I know lots of people would find my way of doing things extreme so I try not to judge. Each to their own.

Being super organised and keeping a very clean and tidy home helps many parents, me included, feel more able to cope with all the other things I need to remember and be in charge of to keep life running smoothly with kids. I am sure in some cases it can take over a bit.

I feel this could actually be about me, and you are my very relaxed friend! 😂
Im not that bad though. My kids paint and do playdoh. They have lego and make a crazy mess! However, my friend sees me as uptight. When painting is out I sit with my kids, in the kitchen. Plastic sheets all over my floor.
No you are not a messy fucker. Your friend sounds too tidy.
Kids make mess! I have a pretty picture on the side of my sofa, my DD wanted to personalise it with a face! I wanted to cry when I saw it. Now, when I get rid of sofa I will cut the face out to keep forever.

She sounds like my mum was when I was a child. Everything had to be put away at night / when you'd finished (if earlier) / when you were going out. The hoover was always on. Everything had to be perfect. No mess. No finger-painting or anything like that. No noise.
I didn't have a bedroom that was my space - bedrooms were for sleeping in, not playing. I never had any privacy.
It sucked. I would have given everything to have had a proper home and not just a house.

hmm You think you've seen lap trays on sofas on the TV? My, how shocking, surely this can't truly exist?!

Yes. Why, is there something wrong with them? I thought they looked quite useful. I’d use them if we ate whilst sitting on the sofa... @JonnaSilvie

Dh has instigated a once a week eat on the the sofa (crap sofa not the nice sofa) in front of the tv.

He tries to balance my OCD out which I appreciate for ds but sometimes find hard to gauge because left to his own devices he would live like a fucking pig. When I moved in with him I was at the revolting state of the place. I really think that's contributed to why I'm so ott about mess and cleanliness.

I find mess really stressful but I couldn't imagine not letting my children play with their toys and encouraged cooking and crafts. I think it was balance of what I found more stressful - trying to keep the place tidy all the time yet keep the children entertained or accepting a level of mess at points in the day and a level of mess won. Now they are older I am getting back to my tidier self.

@FoggieFishieCarpeDiem haha! They sound identical to many people around here. The only branded clothing that is allowed is Patagonia.

I am very tidy but DS was allowed out as many toys as he wanted, they stayed out in his bedroom but all the ones at night in the sitting room were put in a small chest I had in the bay window.

That's a compromise I feel. Play doh and stuff like that was done at the kitchen table, we made some pretty fabulous paper mache stuff. I miss those days I looked after my friends little boy who is only six recently and we had a whale of a time doing crafts. I have a cupboard with stuff like glittery pipe cleaners and poster paints in it we have any small dc visit. I had a craft table at my wedding for the six small guests, no paint only colouring pencils as it seemed safe, foam shapes and pritt stick as well. They are all in their twenties now, my friends son still mentions it.

Yes, Patagonia and Erfolg (means success in English, I don’t know if that brand exists in the US).

You don’t sound ott re mess and cleanliness btw.

The fun thing is, I’m quite ‘alternative’/crunchy compared to many other people (I guess). But I feel like a mainstream, ‘corporate drone’ when I’m with my mother’s family 😆

And like an ‘alien’ in the U.K. 😉

(Not in a bad way, usually. I’ve lived in Israel, for example... But when you marry someone from an other culture, work and live there for an extended amount of time and have children? despite being just a few countries removed from home some differences seem huge I feel like child raising is the area where differences are really felt and sometimes difficult to overcome...)

I have a friend like this. She basically use to encourage demand the kids watched films all the time when at hers. She could never relax when they did crafts even though she had a laminate floor that would wipe clean!

However in contrast her kids were feral round others mine. Drawing on cushions, flicking paint about, always finding an excuse not to tidy up and stepping on furniture.

She had an amazing knack of making you feel uncomfortable for being normal at hers and uncomfortable for expecting some level of acceptable behaviour at your own place

We use to meet up at soft play a lot

It's good that she is best and is teaching her children to be neat but she has gone OTT. She has allowed her liking for cleanliness to interfere with her (and her children's) lives. It's not healthy to not do stuff because you are afraid of making a mess.

Yanbu. But i think i am messy! Let kids be kids as long as all in boxes by bed time im happy with them to have whatever toys out they want. Its not killing anyone. They tody before bed or going out. Painting on fining room table with matt underneath. Not hard really. She sounds a bit too much

@FoggieFishieCarpeDiem I go back to the UK and most of my family think I'm insane. They all eat a staple diet of ready meals and Maccy D's, most smoke (in the house), think buying long lasting wooden toys is a silly wast of money and we were raised on 8 hours of tv a day whereas I try to limit ds. Still breastfeeding ds at age 4, only eat humanly raised organic meat, they think I'm a right crazy, uppity twat.

Dh's recent and expensive declaration he'll only wear fairly made clothing has got heads shaking too. Actually he's buying off eBay so it's not as poncy and expensive as it sounds.

Yes actually her kids are fucking INSANE when they come to our house.

I think someone else's 'mess' is someone else's 'tidy'. We've always been laid back, the kids could have our 10 things at a time and it didn't bother us. As long as at the end, they put it away themselves, or when younger helped to put it away.

It's amazing children's imagination when they can 'mix' different toys to play with. Marbles would become peas in the play kitchen, figures out of scooby doo would be baddies in the turtle castle, and so on.

But I remember having a get to gether one evening, and we had about 10 adults and 5 children under 5 years. The kids made soooo much mess! They had everything out, were painting, had play dough, magic sand, Lego, puzzles the whole lot. There was one mum who was so anxious because of the mess. We just kept saying 'it's fine, leave them to it, they are having fun, it can all me tidied up' (yes it did take 2 hours the folllowing day, and I had glitter in the joins of the laminate floor for about 3 years....) but the children had fun. That's what being a child is about.

Any anxiety from the parent just passes on to the children. Does she realise how uptight (if that's the right word) she is?