Is my friend over tidy or am I a MF (messy fucker)?

[holdthepressitsmummers]

NC for this just in case.

So we have a ds who's 4. Friends have ds 4 and ds 2.5. We all hang out together a lot.

Friend is always super tidy. Kids have very few toys (fine btw, ds has too much and I'm in the process of paring down) and they are organised impeccably. (I also like to keep ds's toys very organised, not a problem.)

But when we go to play, even if there are other kids there too, only one toy is allowed to be out at once. If the kids want to get another toy out they all need to put the toy that's put away first. I agree with this to an extent. If ds tips a bunch of stuff out or get his marble maze out or whatever he's not just allowed to tear through toys until everything is out.

If they ever ask to get puzzles or duplo etc out they get told it just for special times and is too much mess.

It puts me on edge the whole bloody time because she stomps around morning about how things aren't in their right place.

Last time we were there she told dh off for eating take away on the sofa (they have open plan living room kitchen diner thing.) Dh was really embarrassed and annoyed. He's an adult he doesn't tend to spill his food. (Unless drunk .)

I was saying how ds got a load of Lego fro Christmas and she said 'oh we'll never be letting the kids get Lego, it's way too much mess to tidy up.'

She also won't let them do any painting or arts and crafts at home apart from pencil drawing. Because 'my furniture is too nice for stuff like that.' Obviously I'd love to ban painting and such too as it is a massive sodding mess but they need to do stuff like this no?

Is this how most people do things? I thought I was pretty uptight about tidiness and cleanliness as I've suffer from OCD and anxiety at times and have battled to lighten up on the mess ds and dh make and see them as normal life rather than getting me in to a downwards spiral of organising and cleaning.

I'll make ds clean up a little as he goes along in the day and tidy toys away at the end. Have I let go too much?!

We have other (waldorfy) friends who let their kids draw on the furniture. Their house looks like a rubbish dump.

We don't ask them to our house anymore as their kids ransack our cupboards and literally climbed our curtains. They fucking wrecked our house in the space of about an hour. It was like having a herd of cattle charging around.

Maybe I should introduce them.

There's definitely a middle ground between every toy out on the floor and several children each playing with a different toy. I feel sorry for her children learning the lesson that they're never allowed to explore and be messy or creative. One great thing about creative play is using different toys together and seeing what happens. Hers will never get to do that.

I’m pretty tidy but would never restrict my children’s play in that way. It’s all about open ended play for me. Right now dc3 is using her stacking buckets to transport fruit and veg puzzle pieces to her kitchen where she is then cooking them and serving them to her brother. She wouldn’t be able to use her imagination in this way if I’d made her put the puzzle away before getting the buckets out.

Yesterday she piled literally every toy she could find onto scales. It looked a mess but was a valuable learning opportunity for her.

I wouldn’t eat on someone else’s sofa unless they did first though.

Dh is embarrassed. "Why did you have to tell Mumsnet? "

it's not like anyone knows who we are.

Your house - your rules. Her house - her rules.

I can't believe your DH ate takeaway on her sofa! That is pretty rude. Or was it her DH?

Bit of both IMO.

Your friend obviously likes a tidier environment than you do. She lives in the house too, it is not just a children's playground, so there is nothing wrong with her wanting to keep it tidy. You don't mind mess so that's fine for you and your family.

I also like my house tidy, I grew up in a hoarders house and heaps of stuff everywhere really stresses me out. I also encourage DD to put one toy away when she wants to get another out, the house is not large and there just isn't the room. However, when DDs friends are round they are all free to get everything out if they want to, and I don't mind that. It is like a toy explosion after playdates, but I just help DD tidy up once they have gone home.

Your husband was quite rude to take a takeaway straight to the sofa in tour friends house. IME you should always eat at the table in someone else's house, unless you have been told it's ok not to. Many people eat food at tables, especially when their children are small and/or they have carpets. Encouraging small children to eat anywhere else than a table is a big mistake IME.

It was my dh BUT her dh does eat on the sofa. When we go out him and dh get take away and usually eat it on the sofa. Maybe they just do it when she's not around and dh and I had never noticed before!

I remember when mine were little and my husband came home from work and moaned about toys being all over.. I told him that's what kids do and they always tidy before bed so get over it. They're not small for long. I feel sorry for your friends children they'll grow up with all sorts of neuroses.

My house isn't messy and I don't like mess. I've already said I suffer from OCD. When I lived alone my house was a barren, white palace.

I sound like a right wanker don’t I? I should add there are limits and they’re not allowed to just dump toys out and walk away. We do regular tidy ups but if they want to leave something out for later so that they can continue a game they can

It was really rude of your DH to eat takeaway on someone else’s sofa.

Children learn through play, it’s not good for them to have a rule about ‘one toy at a time’ because it stifles their natural play & creativity. Children will happily play across a mix of toys interacting with all of them. Teddies, action dolls/barbies, Lego, cars & playmobile are often all in some play going on. It messes with MY head, but it’s good for theirs!

The only things I apply the ‘one away before getting another out’ rule to is board games & jigsaws.

There is a middle ground I think.

As long as toys were tidied up together at intervals and it was tidy at The end of the day that was fine, although now they are teenagers I wish I'd been a bit stricter and made them do it more themselves. They expect the magic tidying up fairy still to be at their beck and call.

Painting I reluctantly allowed. Glitter was one step to far.

Im surprised she lets her kids breathe. Really the furniture is too good? My furniture is nice but I love my DD more.

@Troika lol. You sound pretty much like how I'm (trying) to do it.

I must admit the Lego got to me yesterday though. Ds got so much for Christmas. It's fucking everywhere. It's like there's a Bastard Lego house elf that gets it back out and spreads it around the house.

I had a storm trooper stuck in my fucking arse crack in bed yesterday morning. I flipped and did an hour long Lego round up.

Oh and stepping on bits in the shower! How are they getting in the shower?!

One of the things that I wish someone had told me before I had kids was that your friends may have different parenting styles (to be expected) but sometimes eventually this will end or distance your friendship.
I have stepped back from friendships over the years because I couldn't get on with the way friends parented, kids being allowed to run wild and break things, friends refusing to hold toddlers hands because "they need to learn independence" etc etc.
It doesn't mean they were wrong and I was right, just that their ways weren't right for me.
My house is very child centred and I know several people who hate it. Toys in the living room, bright colours everywhere. It does look a bit like a nursery or something but I do have 4dc and to be perfectly honest I like it this way. Dc1&2 (5&8) made their own pizzas yesterday, I made the dough. We may make unicorn cupcakes later. My house is never tidy but we're all happy.

This is way OTT. I have a friend who was / is like this but her DD is now 12 and is her only child. I used to take my then toddler DS2 round to hers for lunch. My toddler was barely allowed to move or play with anything (even toys we’d brought) because she was there, hovering, unable to cope with so much as a cushion out of place. I had to stop going as I couldn’t enjoy myself as I was continuously on edge.

I’m sure I thought similar to your friend before I had kids. How she keeps it up with two preschoolers is beyond me.

Always wondered how these people on Instagram with kids have perfect homes now I know!!

Troika. Nah, you sound ‘normal’.

When I said jigsaw puzzles I meant proper jigsaw puzzles, the smaller ones are just part of the ‘toys’ to me. Perfectly normal for a ‘puzzle’ carrot to be cooked! 😁

She is a keen instagramer!

We try to compromise. We're lucky enough to have enough room for a nice family room which ds isn't allowed to do crafts or eat in and then a messy family room which is more relaxed. Well the rest of the house is more relaxed.

Both of my Grandmas had 'front rooms' that were rarely gone in. One Grandma would let you in at Christmas or special guests but unless you were the Queen the plastic wasn't coming off the sofas.

My other Grandma's front room i only ever went in after she'd died. I had a lovely dining table and chairs and lots of dressers with beautiful china in that was never used whilst all the stuff they did use was falling apart.

I used to be like that a little but read some great quote a couple of years ago saying something like don't save things for best, now is the best and you don't know what's coming tomorrow.

That sounds really hard work! My middle child who is 9, I suspect has OCD and it can be frustrating for all concerned. She hates any clutter or mess and will tidy it all away when your back is turned. We are really having to work with her on it as it’s starting to cause problems with her siblings. The latest incident was tidying away her elder sisters revision stuff when she went to the toilet, that caused WW3!

Like my DD, it sounds like your friend really can’t help herself and I really get the frustration it causes all round. Any kind of mess or clutter causes my DD so much stress and I feel so much for her, don’t know where it’s come from as we aren’t fixated on tidiness but we aren’t really messy either. No actual advice to give but following with interest.

I’m from a Waldorfy family and was never allowed to draw on furniture (nor did my friends from school). I once drew on a wall in my DF’s study and got quite a telling off for this...

I didn't allow playdo or similar because it got ground into the carpet. So I binned the lot after a while. You need to put some limits on toys. No point in a gigantic toy box with everything thrown in and jumbled up. No child should be tipping up boxes of stuff on floors and wandering off. If they do they need to be told not to. I wish I'd been more like your tidy friend. Life would have been a lot easier.

I had a storm trooper stuck in my fucking arse crack in bed yesterday morning. I flipped and did an hour long Lego round up. angry

I must admit I felt a bit of relief my youngest didn’t ‘catch the lego’. He just wasn’t interested. It does seem to breed.

I was always a bit twitchy about tidiness but realised it wasn't good for my DCs to have their creativity stifled.

My youngest is 9 so still does some messy craft. I have a large piece of oilcloth that gets put on the table along with a pack of wipes. That's sufficient to protect the table and wipe messy hands before washing them. I also have a large tray that has a melamine base from IKEA and that gets used for things that could end up all over the floor like aqua beads. The oil cloth and tray are splattered in paint and glue accumulated over 14 years.

Lego gets tipped out on to a blanket on the floor and then the blanket is used to tip it all back into tubs.

So it's possible to have a middle ground. I don't think prohibition works.

If your DH has eaten off the sofa before with his friend then I can see why he'd think it'd be OK. If we ever eat off the sofa I just sling a throw/blanket over it.

oddsocks. Definitely. I have a friend who I’ve pretty much stopped seeing other than the odd coffee when ALL the kids are at school. I couldn't take anymore of her letting her children ‘express themselves’ - they would literally upend every tox box, puzzle, game, bookshelf etc onto the floor then walk on it. We started meeting ‘out’ instead but that was awful too as she’d let them run around with food all over their hands & faces getting other people, furnishings & communal toys dirty and leave the most hideous mess on the table/floor as she let them play with food. We can’t go out in the evenings as her DH ‘can’t put them to bed’ - though I could when they went out & I babysat. So now it’s a quick coffee occasionally.

Another friend used to buy her DC lots of toys, so many you couldn’t really get to them as they were all shoved in cupboards & piled up in front of them and she’d moan about the mess and tell them to just watch the TV. Batshit.