Is my friend over tidy or am I a MF (messy fucker)?

[holdthepressitsmummers]

NC for this just in case.

So we have a ds who's 4. Friends have ds 4 and ds 2.5. We all hang out together a lot.

Friend is always super tidy. Kids have very few toys (fine btw, ds has too much and I'm in the process of paring down) and they are organised impeccably. (I also like to keep ds's toys very organised, not a problem.)

But when we go to play, even if there are other kids there too, only one toy is allowed to be out at once. If the kids want to get another toy out they all need to put the toy that's put away first. I agree with this to an extent. If ds tips a bunch of stuff out or get his marble maze out or whatever he's not just allowed to tear through toys until everything is out.

If they ever ask to get puzzles or duplo etc out they get told it just for special times and is too much mess.

It puts me on edge the whole bloody time because she stomps around morning about how things aren't in their right place.

Last time we were there she told dh off for eating take away on the sofa (they have open plan living room kitchen diner thing.) Dh was really embarrassed and annoyed. He's an adult he doesn't tend to spill his food. (Unless drunk .)

I was saying how ds got a load of Lego fro Christmas and she said 'oh we'll never be letting the kids get Lego, it's way too much mess to tidy up.'

She also won't let them do any painting or arts and crafts at home apart from pencil drawing. Because 'my furniture is too nice for stuff like that.' Obviously I'd love to ban painting and such too as it is a massive sodding mess but they need to do stuff like this no?

Is this how most people do things? I thought I was pretty uptight about tidiness and cleanliness as I've suffer from OCD and anxiety at times and have battled to lighten up on the mess ds and dh make and see them as normal life rather than getting me in to a downwards spiral of organising and cleaning.

I'll make ds clean up a little as he goes along in the day and tidy toys away at the end. Have I let go too much?!

Once upon a time I was just like your friend. I could never "settle" in my own home. Visitors stressed me out big time. The house could be immaculate but if I was using a cup as they arrived I would ask them to ignore the mess.

It really felt like other people's kids invaded while they were here. Toys and crumbs spreading everywhere, with inner panic about controlling the spread without offending the child or parent.

I'm not like it now. I've gone the other way. I am naturally a messy lazy person. But I generally strike a balance between being organised and relaxed. Couch potato rather than a person who feels the need to get out everyday. The big difference between then and now is that I am no longer in an abusive relationship where the tiniest bit of mess or dirt was a stick to beat me with.

The fear of untidiness or dirt was purely down to the consequences of it. Is there any chance this could be the case for your friend? It may not be obvious, everyone thought my ex was a diamond, but they weren't living with him behind closed doors. My closest friends used to call me Monica (Friends ref) but don't anymore as they realise what caused it and that I now feel able to let the glitter, Lego etc be used. I have had conversations with friends since, about how uncomfortable they felt in my home due that fear of what ex might think, do or say.

Just offering my insight to give another perspective of why someone might be like that. It's not necessarily that she thinks kids shouldn't be kids, or that her possessions are better than others, it could genuinely be for another reason. By the way, if a friend had suggested this to me at the time, I would have argued black and blue that I was doing it because I liked things that way. When you're in the middle of it, it's hard to recognise and admit. Afterall if I'd been a better person, I would have been able to keep everything perfect, right?

@FoggieFishieCarpeDiem

It's not actually one Waldorf family I'm referring to. There are five that I know that are very similar in letting their kids run riot.

Although saying that, it may be the area too. I know other families from a different Waldorf in a towns area and they're not like this at all. Maybe it's particular to just that school or that area.

I like my home being tidy too, but play is necessary for development. I am a single parent to one child and I want our home to be a welcoming one. My rules are that everything has to be put away before bedtime, and all toys to be away at the end of a play date (and normally dd plays with her friends in her room where all her toys are).

I have to say I agree about paint only for rainy days but dd has free access to paper and crayons, felt tips, stickers etc so it's not like she is losing out.

I would find it too stifling if I had to monitor what could and could not be played with.

The toys she's being uptight. But eating a takeaway on the sofa, seriously?! I'm really not uptight about that kind of thing, but I'd think any guest doing this unasked was seriously fucking rude. He was well out of line!

@gamerchick you're lucky. He's too young to build the bloody things so I spend HOURS doing it.

She'd hate my house, it's a Lego explosion. I don't mind Lego, it's clean mess, it's easily tidied away. Painting and messy things like glitter are fine too - but at the wipeable kitchen table not in bedrooms. We don't have a one toy out at a time rule, but do have a "toys away before bed" rule which is pretty standard.

Sorry no time to RTFT but would like to say be careful spending too much time in her home if it’s likely to cause your OCD to flare. You seem to be in a good place managing your anxiety, it would be a shame to spoil it. Everyone is different and the fact your view of her habits is making you question your own is a signal to take a step back.

It's definitely not her dh. Poor sod is so henpecked he makes me look like a simpering 50's wife.

As for your friend:

Drawing, Legos, painting etc... all of these are normal in our house and happen in the children’s room or the table we usually use for eating (we put a large plastic sheet over the table). Your friend is quite unreasonable in regards to that imo.

Last time we were there she told dh off for eating take away on the sofa (they have open plan living room kitchen diner thing.) Dh was really embarrassed and annoyed. He's an adult he doesn't tend to spill his food. (Unless drunk grin.)

But she isn’t u about that imo. We eat in the kitchen or the dining room (Well, except for biscuits etc on rather rare occasions. But takeaway?)

And that regardless of what he'd done previously with the DH around. As an analogy, just because you once told a guest to help themselves to orange juice from the fridge, doesn't mean that's carte blanche to help themselves unasked to juice every time they come round! In someone else's house, you ask before acting like in your own home, and you certainly don't get all insulted if called on it!

It does make my OCD flare a little. Whenever I get home a have a mad clean out!

Is she completely unaware that children learn through play? I'd ask her if she really puts her wish for tidiness above her children's education.

Your friend sounds joyless. Being tidy is important, but not so important that it takes priority over valuable activities.

We have large white hoppers to throw toys in. One for Lego, one for Plamobil, Eric. DH had the genius idea of buying those tough plastic tubs that builders use. The day's Lego build can be put in those overnight to save it and our sanity. We have currently got a Lego village filling the hearth as the children are too proud of it to allow it to be dismantled. And why not? It isn't in the way and we tell visitors it's an art installation.

Eric? E.t.c.!

It's not actually one Waldorf family I'm referring to. There are five that I know that are very similar in letting their kids run riot.

Although saying that, it may be the area too. I know other families from a different Waldorf in a towns area and they're not like this at all. Maybe it's particular to just that school or that area.

I want offended, don’t worry :)

And whilst the younger generation from my mother’s family (everyone younger than my grandmother) is very very very ‘crunchy’ (seriously. VERY) and alternative they aren’t really anthroposophic...

(Although the truly anthroposophic people I’ve met were actually not really Laisser-faire either...)

I do think that it does indeed depend on where you from. Waldorfschools can really differ from each other and it also seems to depend on the country you’re from...

*I wasn’t offended
*On where you’re from
*Laissez-faire in regards to their chidlrem

Oops

I would hate this. I'm somewhere in between with the DC's stuff (though they don't really play downstairs these days are they're older) but I used to have toy boxes under the stairs and everything would go in there before bed. I taught them from young that they had to help tidy up before bath time and they always did, but I'm a firm believer that when you have young DCs you have to give in to the chaos a little bit. Clearly, no one wants every single toy piled up in the middle of their living room, but kids should also play freely (to a degree) without fear of getting an earful from their parents. Must be a horrible way for a child to live.

P.S. your DH was totally unreasonable re the take away.

Children need to play, that's how they learn, but with that learning comes rules and routines which develop independence. Play provides creativity, resilience and a sense of trying and trying again. Vital learning skills amongst others.

However, I too like 'tidy'. I compromise. When mine were babies I made large mats with a waterproof backing. This protected the carpet and gave my babies/toddlers a space! All of the toys that could fit could be out on the mat, but stayed on the mat. At a 'full and can't play' point some would be put away.

If I still had little ones now I would buy the IKEA tables with the edge around. Perfect for LO to stand at and keeps the Lego/Duplo/dough/beads etc etc in their place. Very similar to the 'builders trays' we would use in school, except they look much nicer.

Some of this depends on you set up.When DD was little we had a large kitchen,children's instant table and hard floors .She had two drawers that were 'hers'for arts,craft stuff.She could make as much mess as she wanted but only n the kitchen and had to help🙄tidy at the end.
Lego was kept in her bedroom as some creations in progress we left up plus her idea of tidying ment moving it all the room edges.
I had to build up a certain tolerance to a bit of chaos and I now have a daughter who is fairly tidy.
It must be harder with kitchen that you can't have a table in or open plan with gluons and sticking,glitter gets everywhere regardless.

Toys are tidied at regular intervals throughout day a part of playing, teen always tidied at end of day so I can relax. I'd hate not to be able to let dd play creatively

@FoggieFishieCarpeDiem we're in the States. One of the Waldorfs near us is off the scale crunchy. Like nobody has a stitch of plastic in the house and won't even allowed branded clothing. Absolutely no media in any form ever. If the school find out they take a very dim view.

Dh is beyond horrified at the takeaway now. He's running back over the last five years trying to figure out who else he may have offended.

This table - perfect!
www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/tables/coffee-side-tables/ypperlig-coffee-table-dark-grey-birch-art-90346592/

I’m a nanny and currently have one 4 year old charge. He has access to all toys and craft cupboard and is free to do what he wants, however he only gets one or two boxes of toys out at a time and puts them away before getting more out.

When he has friends to play they can get everything out that they want but the craft/messy play cupboard is locked!! (I will tidy up after his friends leave as most mums just throw everything into the nearest box whereas he and I like thinks I’m the correct box (all labelled!!)

Just don't go there anymore, it doesn't sound like fun.