To think that women should be able to request a female doctor or nurse?

[Betti935]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

Summary: A woman requested a female nurse to carry out her cervical smear test. When she arrived the nurse was clearly male (stubble, deep voice etc). When she questioned this, the nurse insisted that they were a woman because they were trans. The patient says she was made to feel like a bigot and in the end decided not to go ahead with the smear test.

Now in this case, the NHS Trust has apologised and said that the nurse did not handle the situation appropriately. However the government are planning to introduce into law the recommendations of the Women and Equalities Committee which include, not only allowing men to 'self-identify' as women without any medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, but also to get rid of the exemptions currently in place.

Currently, while biological males can legally 'become' women (following a diagnosis of gender dysphoria - there is already no requirement to have any hormone treatment or surgery), there are some limited exemptions in law:

“If a service provider provides single or separate sex services for women and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present. However, the Act does permit the service provider to provide a different service or exclude a person from the service, who is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or who has undergone, gender reassignment. This will only be lawful where the exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.” For example, it is currently legal for a group counselling session for female rape victims to exclude biological males if female clients would be not feel able to attend and participate in the group if they were present.

If this new legislation is passed and there are no exemptions allowing for transwomen (biological males) to be treated differently from biological women, there will be no way to protect vulnerable women who don't feel able to access rape services or medical services if they can't be sure of a female-only service.

This won't be like other rights conflicts (e.g. on sexual orientation versus religion) where test cases go to court and judgements are made because women won't exist as a separate protected group from transwomen.

Oh here we go......again

Clueless- have you never heard of all the ( predominantly male bodied) miss practices undertaken by qualified medical staff?
It isn't prudish for anyone to request a same sex practioner, would you say the same to a Muslim woman who expressed a preference to be seen only by a woman?
Or is that allowed because religious people are superior to non religious people?
Do you not understand that lots of women and girls have been raped and assaulted by men.
We have the right to request a same sex practitioner.
Your post is idiotic.

Apt username.

Maybe actually read this thread before posting, on over 750 posts many contributors have expressed very eloquently why they would prefer examinations to be carried out by HCPs of the same sex.

You are also very wrong about men not being uncomfortable being seen for intimate procedures. I know men who were embarrassed when treated by a woman. The fact is it is more likely that the doctor will be a man.

There's no need to be rude to me because my opinion differs to yours. Our NHS is already overstretched without patients discriminating against their practitioner. Of course im aware that women get raped by men. But nobody is advocating that women get examined by rapists!

Also I never said that we shouldn't have the choice, merely that i think it IS time we stop being prudish. If you don't want to be examined by a man because you just feel 'uncomfortable' at him seeing you naked (with the exception of those who have religious reasons or might be scared due to previous male attack etc) then i do think you need to get a grip!

clueless2010 It is a violation of NHS policy for a patients request for a same sex practitioner not to be honored. That is why they apologized.

Why should women get a grip about not wanting to be seen by a male exactly?

Why do religious reasons make this reasonable, yet a woman's personal discomfort when undergoing an intimate procedure can be scornfully dismissed?

Good luck ladies, I can't be arsed, off to clean my kitchen.

Why shouldn't we? I mean seriously people seem so ashamed of their bodies in this country or worried about what others think. If your male doctor isn't a sex attacker and is indeed able to help you, what exactly is the problem here?

A person's right to bodily autonomy is what is at stake. A necessary element in trusting a practitioner. Health care is provided for the benefit of the patient. Are these new ideas to you, clueless?

Every time clueless posts, I sink deeper into despair.

Someone help me out with Grayson Perry. If he is turned on by dressing as a woman, autogynaephilia (sp?), then isn't it a bit gross that he goes into schools dressed in a way that is a fetish and is sexual for him? Cross-dressing is different from being trans right? It's about getting a sexual kick from wearing women's clothes? There are countless pictures online of Grayson Perry going into schools to talk to children dressed as a woman - one memorable one with Kate Middleton standing next to him.

How was this considered ok? Or did no parent or teacher want to be the one to say "hang on, I don't want my child to be part of your fantasy".

Every time clueless posts, I sink deeper into despair

Me too. Appropriate user name though.

Well goodluck to you all! As a woman i for one have no problem with being examined by a man or a trans person. I trust that my local hospital doesn't hire sex offenders and i put my health before 'uncomfortable' feelings about a man seeing me naked. I don't see the worst in people including men. I wouldn't take away choice but i would urge people to be more open minded, whilst of course accepting that there are exceptions in extreme cases where people have been abused etc.i feel sad that you feel the need to say my views are idiotic because that's pretty disrespectful - -but that's your choice. Cheers.

Surely anyone can request same sex doctor/nurse, but if one isnt available then they will have to wait or see someone else. Male HCPs can ask for a female chaperone when seeing female patients and female HCPs can ask for male chaperones when seeing male patients. In emergencies you shouldn't care who treats you as long as they are competent, it would be a daft to refuse to have someone save your life based on their gender.

Re Grayson Perry and cross - dressers you (and I mean general you) can't say on the one hand "everyone is free to wear what they want- why can't a man wear a dress if he wants?" and on the other hand all suddenly turn into qualified psychiatrists and call them autogynophiles if they do.

Perry goes to schools to teach children that woman is a costume that men like to wear sometimes.
Drag Queens teach the same thing here in the US at librarys, just as trans advocates go to schools to recruit.

Grayson Perry admits to being an autogynephile.

I didn't know he went into schools, though. That is a mixed message, as far as I'm concerned.

clueless thankfully the women here, and those before us, have fought for our right to define our own boundaries. And it's not left up to some nebulous criteria of people on the Internet.

If you disagree with that and you want to fight for the right to define other people's boundaries, take it up with the NHS. I'm sure they would be delighted to hear about your expertise.

All backed up by your stats, studies and surveys which have no doubt resulted in the conclusion to 'get a grip'.

You urge others to be open minded clueless, but you've been anything but yourself.

clueless2010 I find the easiest thing is to work out ones own boundaries. Then let others work out their boundaries. This works because then the individual needs to be concerned about the things they are happy with.

I will support others in their need/request of a male or female GP, nurse or health care provider.

Even if I don't mind.

I will show my naked vagina to a doctor but not demand another woman does the same.

This neither wastes NHS resources nor causes problems for patients.

The grip needs to be got by those who feel they can dictate to women their boundaries.

retirednow rather than thinking of life threatening situations where one might be forced to receive treatment from anyone, or may not even know who is treating one. It's worth considering some women who may avoid smears altogether if they think the HCP might be male.

Why would anyone want to put a patient in that position.

For some being around a male could be so difficult they would avoid the procedures altogether.

I'd much rather have a female HCP than a male, probing my bits and pieces. At a recent hospital visit I had two excellent female nurses carrying out the initial procedure but then had to see the (male) specialist who had to do a physical examination. It would have made no difference to me whether or not he was trans, I really wasn't comfortable with it but although was informed that I had the right to request to see a female specialist, I was fully aware that I would be wasting NHS resources and would have to rejoin the waiting list. I ended up tolerating it but was incapable of relaxing and the whole process hurt much more than it should have done.

My experience is one of not going to the doctor because they are mostly men, from the time I was 9 until I was five months pregnant at 18. My grandmother pressured me in to going.
Maybe I am wrong but I cannot imagine there is anything unusual about girls not going to the doctor because they are mostly men.