To wonder if I’m just old and possibly on the wrong side of history

[bambambini]

I do wonder if we are possibly seeing the start of a huge shift in society and how people are generally perceived. Many of our young seem to want the future to be different from what we've always had - man/woman, male/female - the binary i guess.

Maybe the future will be where everyone is non binary, where all divisions as we inderstand them are broken down. So you won’t be able to tell for sure what sex anyone is, what body parts they have etc.

I’m critical of the current identity politics debate but that doesn’t mean to say I’m right. Maybe I’m struggling with getting my head around it and accepting it because I’m much older and grew up in different times.

We’ve already seen a huge change in social norms with women getting the vote, the break down of racial segregation, legalisation of homosexuality etc. Maybe identity politics is the natural progression.

Of course it's emotive silently - male rapists transing into women and being moved into the women's prison estate. It's shocking - and dangerous to women.

Here's some (conservative ) statistics about the risks:

fairplayforwomen.com/prisons/transgender-prisoners

Silently
You are conflating culturally informed societal advantage and self-validation. One of those gets you further in life.

Not everyone feels the same granny.

Oh, are you thinking that all MtT have had their gonads removed? You do realise that many have not, and have no intention of doing so? The new laws will allow anyone to declare themselves a woman without making any changes to their physical state at all. With no right of appeal or complaint.

I'm sorry but I've no idea what you mean by TiMs, I know that it's used by sectarians in Northern Ireland but that wouldn't fit into this context. Is it a derogatory term?

Trans Identifying Males and it's no more derogatory than Cis.

I'm from NI and I have no idea wtf that TiMs is. 😕

grannytomine
I'm glad your experience was positive. My elderly mother's experience was not.
But I'm not talking from my own experience - here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/tripling-patients-forced-treated-mixed-sex-wards/

@Spartacus, anyone in the US can file a law suit claiming anything they like, it's not evidence of anything.

Trans Identifying Males and it's no more derogatory than Cis

A lot of women don't like CIS and I think that people should get to choose what they call themselves rather than getting into a downward trial of insulting language.

silently
Maddison Hall in Australia, imprisoned for murdering a woman as Noel Crompton, moved to a womans prison where he was charged with raping inmates. Underwent SRS funded by Australian government
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sex-change-killer-to-be-free-as-a-bird/news-story/b1fecc9a9a4717607de6e980980e0ba5?sv=e95663cd723e2f8ffa0caa3329e03203

I'm from NI and I have no idea wtf that TiMs is.

I'm from NI too and I've no idea what TIMs means either, in a N Ireland sectarian context. I've only ever heard of it meaning Trans Identifying Male as well.

I don't like CIS and I don't like TERF yet they are bandied around by TIM and TA in general all the time.

@guardianfree, I'm having trouble finding the balance or evidence your link.

Paris Green although that may be consensual
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525441/Transgender-murderer-Paris-Green-moved-womens-prison-sex-inmates.html

Terms such as 'man' and 'woman' are no longer useful when it comes to assessing prisoners' needs.
What is important is 'penis' and 'no penis', given that penis has historically used as a weapon and rates of weapon use are elevated in prisons.
Of course, it's very clumsy to refer to individuals as 'penis' and 'no penis', not to mention extremely insulting to that group who've spent centuries being defined as a 'not-man', but them be the hoops to jump through if we're trying to a) ensure women's safety and b) massage men's egos, right?

80-95% of trans-identified males keep their penis. Source: Sages (Sex and Gender Ethics Society)

silentlyscreaming the Kinsey report 60 years ago determined that sexuality has a spectrum and a lot of individuals are not exclusively attracted to one sex/gender. I had a relationship with a woman in my 20s, although I am married to a man. My gay brother has also had a relationship with a woman, but he has been with his current partner for 15 years.

When it comes to feeling like a particular gender; I genuinely feel that although many men/women feel a certain way according to their gender, many don't, its takes most people into their 30/40's to feel secure as a person and defining your personality or sexuality should be something you explore in your teens, rather than having surgery or taking drugs that will affect your reproductive future.

As a women I honestly have never thought that my thoughts/experiences and choices as a person have been determined by my sex, but I do think that the current phenomenon of posting your entire life in pictures on social media only adds to people's feelings of insecurity, that maybe they don't "fit the norm"...and maybe we need to have more images of normal people...its odd that I put that, but I mean normal as in different people.

I don't like CIS and I don't like TERF yet they are bandied around by TIM and TA in general all the time.

Okay, so you're an adult woman and you think that it's alright to call a group of people, a nasty name because someone called you a nasty name?

I'm sure you are Silently

What's the nasty name?

I am not so sure. I think that there are many young people who still wish to be known as male or female.

I was actually being sarcastic when I used the term Cis, but TIMs seem to be able to use the term to describe women, so I really don't think they have a right to be offended when I refuse to take part in their fantasy and call them women.

I honestly think your heart is in the right place silent, but you should be brave and educate yourself on the harm that is being caused to women's rights by TIMs. Go on, delve into the feminist pages and get your eyes opened to what is coming.

I'm from NI too and I've no idea what TIMs means either, in a N Ireland sectarian context

"Proddy" =Protestant
"Tim" =Catholic
Scottish west coast sectarian morons use the terms as well. (Are you a Proddy or a Tim?) apparently- I have never heard them in real life.

I don't know the derivation of "Tim"

Thanks Lass I've never heard that one before. Very intrigued as to where it might originate from.

We would all be better off if gender was mainly irrelevant, and biological sex only an issue when people wanted to make babies. Your genitals/chromosomes/choice of clothing don't have any bearing on how good you are at driving a bus, pulling a pint, delivering a package, selling a house, painting a picture, setting a broken bone, fixing a busted laptop, growing vegetables, cleaning windows, taking a dog for a walk, scheduling train times, checking a spreadsheet, answering a phone, etc, etc.

But we can't get to that situation without getting rid of male privilege, male entitlement, and male violence against women and girls. The current 'trans rights' movement seems to be heavily influenced by unpleasant, woman-hating men (and the online branch overrun with the sort of dubious bastards who have swung the mainstream media further and further to the right).

I'm from the West coast of Scotland and I've heard both Proddy and Tim before. Not sure where the term Tim actually come from though maybe from the name Timothy possibly because Catholics are more likely to have saints names.