To wonder if I’m just old and possibly on the wrong side of history

[bambambini]

I do wonder if we are possibly seeing the start of a huge shift in society and how people are generally perceived. Many of our young seem to want the future to be different from what we've always had - man/woman, male/female - the binary i guess.

Maybe the future will be where everyone is non binary, where all divisions as we inderstand them are broken down. So you won’t be able to tell for sure what sex anyone is, what body parts they have etc.

I’m critical of the current identity politics debate but that doesn’t mean to say I’m right. Maybe I’m struggling with getting my head around it and accepting it because I’m much older and grew up in different times.

We’ve already seen a huge change in social norms with women getting the vote, the break down of racial segregation, legalisation of homosexuality etc. Maybe identity politics is the natural progression.

Oh piss off

Trans people are ten times more likely to be murdered and twenty times more likely to kill themselves than binary people

First of all you have confused trans with non binary. Totally different things. Then you give us complete bullshit made up statistics.

THIS is why identity politics is not a natural progression of anything. Because its built on lies and bullshit and its mostly complete and utter wankery.

Trans people are ten times more likely to be murdered

Can you link where you got that statistic from? Are you talking about the UK?

Many of our young seem to want the future to be different from what we've always had - man/woman, male/female - the binary i guess.

I think this perhaps is a fundamental misunderstanding or narrowing of history. It hasn't always been like that, it just has been in the last 5 to 10 decades of Eurocentric history. It reminds me of my gran saying that homosexuality is 'a new craze'.

as we try to make things better for everyone else.

Who is this 'everyone else'? And how exactly are you making things better for them?

SilentlyScreaming
This is much bigger than toilets. It's rapists in women's prisons, hospital wards, the right to a female HCP for smears etc if wished, women's sport being for biological women as well as a massive risk to children and adolescents from those seeking to persuade them (under the age of consent) into a lifetime of drugs and surgery.
And this charmer is an illustration of where this can lead us:

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/ryan-terry-torn-between-all-of-envy-lust-and-hatred/

I also wonder if I will be on the wrong side of history.

I support trans people's rights to live as they choose, to use the pronouns they prefer, to wear what they want, to live as they want.

But I can't agree that trans women are women and I can't agree that saying that is literal violence against a minority.

I am not a cis woman either. And I object that I cannot define myself as a woman.

And to be honest, I can't believe the majority will go along with the above.

Time will tell.

As for trans people impinging on women's spaces, the main concern I've seen around women only space recently is maternity wards. There have recently been two posters here who didn't want to be on a ward where male partners were allowed to stay after giving birth.

Sadly, those women didn't get nearly as much attention, understand or support as I see on most anti trans threads.

YANBU. I really struggle with the issues around transgender rights, and I consider myself to be a liberal leftie. Part of that is that the trans movement seems to be predicated on bullshit gender steteotypes which I don't accept. The other part is that I am a feminist and it feels at odds with the whole thing. The comparison to the kkk is not valid because white people were not oppressed as women have been and still are. I really don't like being a hater though. Tricky.

Silently
Straight couple assuming you will be up for a threesome by virtue of being a lesbian is offensive and should be addressed. But not by ignoring the fact that TIM believe hey have the right to call their penis a ladydick and insist on sex with lesbians. I can't believe that needs explaining to anyone.

As for trans people impinging on women's spaces, the main concern I've seen around women only space recently is maternity wards

Mote bullshit. Trans women will not be on maternity wards, what with being unable to give birth (because they are biological males).

How much guff are you going to spout?

SilentlyScreamingAgain Thank you for your posts, and you're not alone in your views. Most of us are just too tired of the bulldozing TERFs on here to engage with them anymore.

You mean pro women threads silently, pro women.

@guardianfree that link is horrifying frightening stuff. Theres surely no need for the FBI to be profiling serial killers when they put themselves out there in plain sight? That man said he wants to kill small girls just because they got to be what he never was? He wants to murder beautiful women? And that's ok to say?

@guardianfree, can you give some examples of where women have been raped by transwomen is prison or on hospital wards?

I'm not in favour of rape, I think it's fucking hideous and I'd be happy to see rapists locked up for the rest of their natural lives but, as far as I'm aware, it's an act mainly carried out by straight men.

Don't give up Daily, engage, discuss this issue.

Why do you feel we should have mixed sex everything when that would disadvantage women in many ways?

@Dailymailreadersarethick, mostly I feel the same way and I know that I'm pissing in the wind here. ;-)

I don't think most people are sick of it and I would never refer to concerned women as "terfs" what nonsense.

It seems to be a social contagion at the moment amongst the young. Given the fact that the truth of the matter is that you can't successfully change sex without extensive medication and surgery I would imagine the fad will eventually pass.

Women are suing in Dallas as they forced to share facilities with males.

“The Plaintiffs have been forced to share intimate facilities with men, who allege they are women,” the Feb. 15 complaint states. “These men openly express their sexual desire for the women inmates, at times, in the showers, and bathrooms, while women are naked or partially clothed.

Why do women's rights matter so little?

nd I'd be happy to see rapists locked up for the rest of their natural lives

In womens prisons, as long as they decide they are trans after they get convicted of rape? Because that is happening.

Trans activists are bullying women, hurting women, taking from women. If you are a trans activist you are anti women.

Why the fuck should we be silent on this?

@currysorst, try and read what I've written again. If you keep you finger under each word and say it out loud, you might be able to make sense of it. My whole fucking point was that those vunerable women were being made feel more vunerable by straight men, not transwomen.

Given the fact that the truth of the matter is that you can't successfully change sex without extensive medication and surgery I would imagine the fad will eventually pass

You can't change sex even with extensive medication and surgery. You can only change the outward appearance to better pass as the opposite sex.

For decades to come we will all still see that that are two biologically different groups of people. And only one group will continue to
Bear children
Suffer death in childbirth
Have their reproductive autonomy restricted
Be killed at birth once their sex is revealed
Be forced into child marriage

We will also see that there is a HUGE preponderance of one group doing the unpaid work of society.
And of being underrepresented in government or media or business leadership positions.
And owning or controlling a tiny fraction of the world's resources.
And being raped.

These things will show stark contrast between the two groups.

The world is split between those who want to address these facts, and those who prefer to ignore them because they are inconveniently at odds with an ideology which must be pursued at all costs.

Biology IS binary.
Society places those two binary options in a hierarchy.
One of the binary groups suffers as a result.

One can either fight that, or deny it and perpetuate it.

@currysorst, try and read what I've written again. If you keep you finger under each word and say it out loud, you might be able to make sense of it. My whole fucking point was that those vunerable women were being made feel more vunerable by straight men, not transwomen

Nice attempt at patronising, but you missed the point. No, it was the "transwomen" who raped women as straight men that made them vulnerable.
And you want to help them do it. You must be so proud of yourself.

Does that mean I should dislike and mistrust all straight men and women or should allow the, fewer human rights than another group

Women can't rape you, but men can. Are you happy to let TIMs into female spaces, simply because they say they are women? We're not talking about disliking TIMs, we're talking about them taking over female spaces. You know those spaces that have been created to protect women from aggressive or perverted men, such as toilets, changing room, women's shelters?