To ask is it ever ok not to tell someone why your ending friendship?

[ladystarkers]

I’m torn.

Carol was a part of my larger friendship group, but we weren't particularly one on one friends. Then in early 2013 we both announce we are pregnant and we were due a day apart.
Our friends even threw us a joint baby shower.
We then became very close, spending time together, talking about what to buy, names etc.
When the babies were born we spent loads of time together.

We used to go out usually once maybe twice a week and be really close. Often it was her inviting me places or around her house or she used to come to me.

Separately she had done NCT birth classes and made a group of Mummy friends through that. I was never included in their plans but that was fine I had separate friends too. (This becomes relevant later.)

We got pregnant with our second children at the same time more or less. Due two months apart this time. Mine was an accident, (otherwise I would never have had them so close.)
When she mentioned they were planning their next child within 2 years of the first, I mentioned how about a 3 year gap so the elder one gets the free childcare, as I’d heard how hard a 2 year age gap was, but she said she wanted rid of the baby stuff and of course, ultimately it was their decision.

Over the next few years I constantly do her favours, favours that she asked me to do. I babysat on many occasions, once for a full day (she never once offered to have my daughter) my hubby used his van to transport furniture on several occasions, she even ran out of petrol once and guess who she rang? I even picked her daughter up from nursery and dropped her off on a day I didn’t have my own kids just to help her out!
I didn't mind at the time, as I'm quite a helpful person. And I was to understand friends were there for each other when the chips were down.

After she had her second child I noticed she was spending a lot time with Linda. A woman from her NCT group.
I was occasionally asked along to their meets but I didn't really "click" with Linda. Her and Carol had more earth mother tendencies than me and neither approved of me letting my daughter have chocolate, sweets or squash etc. She was quite a bitchy person and Carol changed around her. Linda also steered the conversation to things they'd done together or about the rest of their group to leave me out. I must have given off a vibe and invites fizzled out to spend time with both of them.
Carol and me were still seeing each other alone.

I had an inkling things were going down hill when they went on a night out together in December 2015 and excluded me. I still think that was an unkind thing to do, I should have said at the time, but if you don’t want me there, I’m not going to force myself on you.
Carol wasn't haven't a good time with her second child, she struggled with the close gap, the baby refused to sleep and had many allergies. Carol wouldn't accept any help with gently encouraging her baby to sleep, so so there was nothing I could do to help. I did my best to be a supportive friend and often babysat the elder one last minute if she had to rush to the Docs.
I thought she was depressed but she insisted she wasn't so there wasn't a lot I could do if she wouldn’t let me help her or tell me she was feeling low.

Suddenly last March for a few weeks in a row she gave me excuses why she didn't want to meet up and at first I thought nothing of it. We all have weeks where we're jam packed. But after about 4 times of asking and being told she was too busy I noticed she was still out with Linda all the time and another lady she'd met at a baby group in January. She also took great delight in telling me her weekly plans that included seeing people she hadn't seen for years. What also stung is, she plastered their outings all over Facebook for me to see. Almost like she was making a point. That naturally hurt my feelings, as I'm not daft!

I thought she was trying to ghost me, but she was giving me mixed messages, like messaging me and making conversation and apologising for not being around much so based on this I just thought she was genuinely busy.

Finally in May she agreed to meet me but wouldn't come to my house or have me at hers. That hurt too. We'd always had play dates at each other's. We met at a local cafe. She was on her phone constantly, wouldn't look at me, barely answered me and didn't asked me one thing or even how I was. Didn’t engage in conversation at all. I don’t know why she bothered!

I found out later it was because she was just feeling so shitty. I will never understand why she just didn't tell me that and requesting space instead of giving me excuses about not meeting up then turning up and acting like that towards me. I'd rather not force myself on someone, but I'm not a mind reader!! I'll never understand why she didn't turn to me if she was feeling so low.
I messaged her that evening asking her if I'd upset her.
She said no, but she wasn't feeling herself and was keeping a low profile. I said I know that's not true because you're out with Linda and Ali all the time so it must be something to do with me. She just said she couldn't take on anyone else's worries or drama at the minute as she has her own stuff to digest. I was most confused by this as I didn't have any problems or anything. She never really answered me but but it was kind of swept under the carpet. I couldn’t get a straight answer about what I’d done.

I was willing to leave it at that and I'd accepted the friendship was over (though I was very hurt at the way I’d been treated) but she continued to message me and asked me to meet up once. I declined as I was still hurting. I knew she had a problem with me and I couldn't meet her and act ok. She may be two faced but I’m not.

Then, out of the blue toward the end of June she sends me a random message out of nowhere saying she has had a lot less time than usual and she's become more choosey about what she does and she feels we have less in common now due to differences in lifestyles and opinions, but she wants to remain friends. It was all dressed up in frilly language but that's essentially what it said. Of course I was very upset. She was the last person in the world I expected to turn on me. I thought we were friends for life! The differences in lifestyle referred to me appearing to have a lot disposable income than her, but we made very different choices when we were younger so I don't feel it's my fault she blew hers and got into debt why I didn't!

Her Husband didn't give her much of his wages and spent all his money on himself, smoking drugs and takeaways. Definitely not my fault! Her kids wouldn't sleep but she wouldn't do anything to help this.
I get the impression there was a lot of bitching to Linda etc about the way I parented.
What she didn't realise though is, her eldest is very placid and just sits calmly watching TV or being patient. I've got an absolute live wire that never sits still, is constantly into everything and running about. So it was easy for her to be judgemental of me as she had an easy child from a behaviour point of view.

There were loads of choices she made that I didn't necessarily agree with. Like dumping your cats at a rescue just because you had a kid, eating cake, chocolate and sweets in front of your child but telling her she can't have any, refusing to do encourage sleep with your child but then leaving your kids for 5 weeks whilst they were so young and probably pining for you, giving them stupid middle names, stealing the youngest ones Christmas money to pay for an injection for the older one, staying with a man who lied to you about money and got into debt due to gambling and taking out short term loans (the deceit), being with a man who put smoking and buying weed above providing for his wife and children... I could go on. But I just accepted it as part of all of us being individuals and we’re all different.

I replied and said my piece about how I felt she was a user and to me friends should always support each other and not just dump them when things get tough.
I then blocked her on everything as I was so hurt. She sent a message through a mutual friend asking me to meet her the next day. I already had plans but was still too hurt to go, I would have just cried.

I finally agreed to meet her in Oct after she messaged me apologising and asking me to give her second chance. I explained if our life circumstances had changed or something and we'd drifted apart then I'd have been fine, but one day you were my friend the next day nothing! I cried as I was talking and she said sorry. But she said I'm a dramatic person (I come across that way as I'm very animated when I speak) and as she was going through her own stuff she couldn't "deal" with me. I do sort of understand that, but it still bloody hurt.
She said she never wanted to stop seeing me or being friends, but anyone who thinks any normal person would still see someone who as blatantly told you that you're not good enough for their time and only when they don't get a better offer is clearly self centred!!
Plus when she had no one else, until she got close to Linda and met this Ali it didn't bother her. Me being like I am certainly didn't bother her when I was babysitting for her for free or my hubby was using his small amount of free time running around moving furniture for her!!

Anyhow over the next few weeks she messaged me and I accepted her friend request on fb. I replied to her last message on text but then there was no reply in nearly a month so I just couldn't be bothered with the leftover crumbs of friendship she was trying to give me. I decided I was worth more than that. Things would never be the same again.

I also found it too difficult and hurtful to see her on Facebook having fun with those two girls so I blocked her again. I just couldn't deal with it.
I noticed that Ali had instantly been incorporated into her NCT group of friends, being asked on nights out. It became apparent I was the embarrassing gobshite friend. Only there for company when no one else was available and to use for favours, but not good enough to be asked on outings or nights out with others.
I was clearly always seen as a Z list friend.

I will never understand what I did wrong.
I will never understand why is she'd got that low and depressed she couldn't turn to me like she did for physical help.
I'll never understand why she didn't just message me in advance saying she needed some space instead of letting me keep messaging her asking me to meet up. Making a fool of myself whilst she was probably bitching about me.

The signs of her selfish and narcissistic streak were there. When Syria first happened I saw telly program where women in a refugee camp were upset as they couldn't get formula for their babies and they felt too weak to breastfeed. I told her it had really upset me as a new Mum and her response was "they shouldn't be having babies anyway." She's entitled to that opinion of course. I just thought it was extremely harsh and uncaring.

Same when I was choosing my two yearly charities to support she spoke in such contempt about charities I was taken aback!

So I should have known when I'd fulfilled my purpose of being there when she had no one else and providing services for her were no longer needed I'd be gone too.

I guess ultimately me and her viewed friendships very differently. Anyone that thinks someone would remain friends after being told they'd got choosier about what they do and you were basically the last option clearly doesn't have a healthy view of friendships.
My friends are important to me. I find it difficult to make new friends so when I do I value them and try my hardest to sustain them and be a good friend.
As she finds making new friends so easy I guess she just views them as long as they suit and are convenient to her it's fine. But once they're not useful or serve her purpose or someone "better" comes along you will get binned.

When I think about it, it still hurts. But I'm cross with myself for not seeing the signs. But I'm getting there now I've met a few genuine, decent friends.

I guess with a friend like that who needs enemies? But betrayal never comes from enemies. And I failed to recognise a narcissist.

Sorry it was so long I just had to get that off my chest! I’ve changed the names

Been on both ends, can see reasons all around. Depends hugely on the circumstances, people etc.

@MesKoala that is so sad and hurtful. This leapt out at me: the next time i saw exH i asked him and he looked sheepish and said they'd all told him they 'didn't enjoy my company anymore'.

Are you sure your exH didn’t tell some awful story/lie/outrageous gossip to get them all to turn against you - possibly he was worried about one of them betraying the Secret of him and your BF and maybe hatched a plan to isolate you from them all??

Jessikita, that is a very identifying post ... just in case you are worried about being identified on here.

Thanks for your concern, but I’m not worried about being identified.

There’s only family and 2 other friends who know the story anyhow.

Ah jessikita - I had one like that. I should have seen the signs as she dropped another friend to be my friend for two years. But I chose not to. Then she dropped me when her next phase began. I was Facebook friends with her for a few years recently but I've recently unfriended as I realised I thought about how she treated me whenever something of hers popped up

I've been ghosted this year. A friend who lives abroad but that I see quite regularly. Been friends for 27 years. No idea what I've done......it's horrid. I would rather they told me outright than this. I honestly can't think of what I've done

whenlove thirded

Never ghosted anyone and ever been ghosted.

Perhaps that’s why I’m so skeptical of those who have been ghosted and proclaiming to have no idea, none whatsoever, not even a teeny tiny idea as to why.

I believe everyone has a choice in relationships. That includes how they end them, if they choose to. You can choose to be in one, or not to be in one. In general, if you treat people with decency, kindness and importantly space when they need it from you, then it's unlikely you're going to get ghosted. On the other hand, if someone does decide to ghost you that is their choice, you get the hint and you respect their wishes. No it's not great to be ghosted or told straight but that's the risk you run of being in a friendship. And friendships can run their course for any reason.

The last time I got ghosted, the 'friend' eventually got back in touch. She couldn't remember what I'd done. Just that she had ended up feeling annoyed with me after a conversation. But then she suggested we met back up and the last thing I heard from her was a Facebook status saying that she had done something wrong and felt bad about it (guess what: she'd stood me up). Cow.

I've been on the receiving end of ghosting...it fucking stings!

It really does. It caused me a lot of pain

If circumstances permit—and I do understand that that isn't always the case—then please do offer an explanation. It would have helped someone like me to understand and would have lessened the emotional pain I went through

I have ghosted someone abruptly after one event which I found very very hurtful. I can forgive her - I suspect if I told her she'd be mortified and and apologetic (she was, I think, drunk at the time) but I find myself in the very unusual (for me) position of not wanting to be all reasonable about it. I am surprised by the strength of my feeling. If I saw her again I'd talk to her but I'm not going to initiate it

Wishing - i have loads of ideas, I've spent years laying awake at night going over everything that happened in fine detail. But of course it's all speculation. It could be loads of things. It could even be something i don't even know about. That's what makes it so shit you get no 'closure'.

Redials - No. Im pretty sure he was still protecting me an trying to play it down. He is a very nice person and at the time we were good terms.

I know some people are not a fan of ghosting - but I am guessing these are people who it's happened to.

It's not a very nice thing to do, and it is best to let the friendship die off, and drift, and fade, rather than sever ties immediately. And I am surprised at the stories about someone being friends for 10-20 years, their BFF saying they love them, and then 12 hours later blocking and disowning her. This sounds a bit suspect to me. There has to be more to this. I just can't see anyone doing this without a damn good reason, and something very serious happening.

Sometimes you have no choice other than ghosting someone though, if people won't take the hint. As has been said, how the hell are you meant to say to someone 'I don't want to be in this friendship anymore, as I find you an annoying, boring, whiney, narcissistic twat who I realised I have nothing in common with, who gives me a headache, and who makes me skip hobby groups and meetings with my friends in the village because I know YOU will be there, cornering me, moaning about everything, asking me how me and my DH cope with me only working part time, and asking why we don't have a bigger house.'

As I said, sometimes ghosting is the only answer... It's the only way some people will get the message. I dropped many hints with one woman I knew for several years (who latched onto me when we both moved into the village,) and kept avoiding pub nights with her and her DH, and avoided her when I could. She didn't get the message, and so when I changed my mobile phone number, I didn't tell her. I also did not send a Christmas card to her this year. She has been mithering other people about me, (who keep asking if I am ok,) and I just say I have been 'busy.' I am a middle aged woman, and I don't need to be told I should be contacting someone who annoys the fuck out of me. I tried letting the friendship drift, but she simply didn't get the message, so 'ghosting' is the only option now.

The situation with @MrsKoala on page 3 is very sad, and i do feel for you, but I don't think I have ever known anything like this happen to anyone. There HAS to be more to it. A group of 8 friends you had for 30 years just cut you out, because they 'didn't like your company.' There has to be more to it. I think I would be investigating further.

@sissyinthesummertime

I tried just declining invitations, not replying to texts, not answering the phone etc. However, it didn’t work. She just couldn’t see it. Too thick skinned and self centred to even notice anything was wrong.

This was the same with the woman I tried to avoid and give a wide berth...

Just before Christmas I had to text to say that I had a lot on and I would be in touch when it was over. I don’t intend to get in touch again. Is that ghosting? I’m not sure.

Yes you are ghosting her now. As I said though, when someone won't take the hint, you have no choice.

@Babscabs

I think it's incredibly cruel to ghost someone, with no indication why. It's happened to me several times and caused mental breakdown as I desperately tried to work out why, so I could avoid it happening again. It's had a huge long-term impact and I still get nightmares and flashbacks which get worse if I get close to someone as I guess subconsciously I'm terrified it will happen again.

That sounds like an extreme and bizarre reaction to a friend ghosting you. Have you sought help for it? I think you may benefit from counselling.

@KioskKeithForPresident

you never know where that friend may turn up in future - she could be in a position of power over you -end up being your boss/your DPs boss/ a next door neighbour/the chairman of your local organisation where you volunteer.

This will probably never happen.

But I am prepared to take the risk to rid myself of a pesky, toxic, soul-draining presence in my life.

apoppetonastring I suspect I am ghosting her now.* I don’t have a lot on. I’ve never been more relaxed in my life. Life is good. So, it’s a lie to save her feelings. She’s highly temperamental, I don’t need the drama.*

I feel sad for what could have continued as a good friendship, but her drinking and bullying ways have ruined that, not me.**

Don’t know why they is bold!

MrsKoala

Wishing - i have loads of ideas, I've spent years laying awake at night going over everything that happened in fine detail. But of course it's all speculation. It could be loads of things. It could even be something i don't even know about. That's what makes it so shit you get no 'closure'.

It could be “loads of things”?

In that case MrsK, I’m not surprised what happened to you did. The fact that you have identified loads of ideas about what it could be about is very telling indeed. It would suggest a hell of a lot of negative drama.

So sorry for the hurt feelings on this thread. Bloody hell its a minefield.

The friend I no longer want to be friends with has openly sided with someone who was controlling, bullying, bitchey and two faced and thats being kind. Also, I feel like I get a few crumbs thrown my way, she makes a song and dance of how she never goes out, her fb says different. She meets with me once every few months at a time that suits her for an hour max. Time to move on.

I think you should give some sort of explanation if asked even if it's not the whole truth or a kinder version of the truth. It's easier just to quietly move away from the friendship rather than send a letter or have a dramatic showdown.

In that case ladystarkers I would just gradually fade her out. There is nothing to gain by having a showdown. Just give a watered down version if asked. I

I stopped any contact with a cousin. We were the same age and had grown up together and I was just sick of her slyly treating me like crap. She was sly, smug and did some really nasty things but maintained a surface appearance of being nice. She treated me as if I was someone to be pitied in some way and was very condescending. Infact I was much more successful, had more friends, a nicer house but felt constantly like I wasn't because of the continued criticism from her.

I was a wimp and never challenged her which I can not understand now looking back, but was really sick of it. So I took control and I made the decision after a particularly nasty comment she made and simply never contacted her or took her calls again. She sent letters 'signed for' which I refused to accept. She sent letters I just threw in the bin without opening and a postcard with an instruction to meet her at a place and time to have coffee and discuss it with her- I ignored that.
My mum asked me why I had done it because her mum asked my mum and I said I was not discussing it- so my mum could genuinely say she did not know. Oddly enough, her parents and I keep in touch and they are very nice to me and I am to them.
When I met DH and we got married she tried to get in touch but I did not respond.
I am a happier, more confident person without her in my life. I never explained myself to anyone because I never felt the need to. Her feelings were the least of my thoughts.

I was ghosted by someone who had been my friend since primary school. She first moved about 1/2 hour away and it always ended up with me going to her rather than her coming to me. I always gave presents to her son at birthday and christmas and we saw each other regularly.

She did hairdressing at college and when she asked if she could practice on me I said of course and she thanked me for helping her out. When I got married she did my hair as a wedding present despite me telling her that I was planning to pay her.

When I moved in with DH I moved about 1/2 hour the other direction from her but still was the one that travelled to meet up. She then moved back to near where we started and still expected me to be the one to travel which I did. She was a mobile hairdresser so not as if she was unable to drive.

She got very excited when I announced my pregnancy with DD1 and sent birthday and christmas presents to her just like I had done for her son. Her DS was 11 years older than my DD so I gave much more over the years (it doesn't matter to me but mentioning to show that it wasn't to do with me being stingy).

When I got pregnant with DD2 she was excited again and I assumed that things would continue as they had. Near christmas I explained to her that I was unable to drive as I couldn't physically fit behind the wheel due to the bump and she said no problem, she will come to me to exchange presents. I got a text from her on the day to say that she didn't want to travel that far and could I come to her. I explained again that I couldn't drive and that I wouldn't be down her way until after christmas as was relying on DH and he was working. By this stage I was giving money/vouchers to her DS as that was what he preferred so just put them in the post instead so that he wouldn't miss out.

After that she went no contact on me. No acknowledgement of the birth of DD2, the only message I had from her is when I sent her DS his birthday card was that she wasn't going to cash the cheque and not to send to him again. No idea what I did wrong other than being too pregnant to drive one time despite driving to her every single time for years.

Wishing - Not really. 'maybe i was annoying' 'maybe the fact i was getting divorced made them uncomfortable' 'maybe the last time we saw each other i said something that upset them?' (then going over every word i said) 'maybe someone said something about me that wasn't true' 'maybe they were pissed off i was going skiing without them'. The list goes on and on. You just go over every little thing it could possibly be till you have a ridiculous list and still no concrete idea.

My one mutual friend who still sees them says they often ask if i'm okay and express affection but just found the fact they thought they should 'choose' between me and my exH really difficult. Of course i still question whether my friend is saying that just to make me feel better. You just never know. Which sends you crazy.