Does you cook with wine for your toddler?

[missladybird]

Slightly panicking about dd having beef gravy with red wine yesterday. I have bad anxiety and alcohol is a massive trigger due to my childhood and living with an alcoholic. I would never ever serve food cooked in wine but didn't realise yesterday until it was too late.

Am I overreacting or would you freak out too?

I'm definitely coming out of the horrendous cycle now.

It didn't help that people at the table were making jokes about dd being drunk etc. They obviously had no idea about it being a huge trigger but for me it wasn't funny.

A couple of months ago we were at my aunt's house who I trust more than anyone in my family and she saw no harm in serving coq au vin. I told her about my anxiety and she made something else for dd.

I can't believe how messed up I am when it comes to alcohol. The wine isn't added to get you drunk, it's for flavour isn't it?

There is no harm in coq au vin. I have made it for my children many times.

Yes, alcohol is added to food for flavor. If you wanted to get drunk, you'd drink the wine.

YES. That’s exactly what it’s for. Your DD can have coq au vin, that’s perfectly fine.

You see, that worked. You told your aunt that you didn't want your daughter to eat the coq au vin and she gave her something else.
Hope your appointment is helpful today and maybe this time next year you'll be able to let your daughter have a mince pie or a bit of Christmas pudding without worrying.

Bless you, this sounds very difficult. And I understand anxiety (although not with OCD) so I know what it’s like. But people are right, your anxieties and extreme reactions are going to be much more harmful to your children in the long run, so please make sure you continue to get the help you need. Remember that if you freak out about things like this every time, your child will very soon start to notice and a fear of the world and terror at her place in it will become her norm too.

I’m glad you’re through the worst of it for this time.

@missladybird you're not messed up when it comes to alcohol... It's your experience with alcoholism in your family that is the problem and I completely understand (as far as a person can over the Internet) as I've had similar experiences in my own family and it's really difficult.

Once you get the OCD a bit more under control would you like to explore your relationship with alcohol further? You don't have to drink it of course, but there are many shades of grey between sobriety and alcoholism, most of them occupied by people who enjoy the occasional drink, behave well and are no threat to anyone. Constantly worrying about something like this can occupy a lot of head space and make the world seem like a very dangerous place and so the OCD cycle begins again.

I really hope you can get some support and talking therapy where you are as it can make all the difference. Good luck with your appointment!

This is about an anxiety attack that needs managing. There is absolutely no risk to your child, after cooking there is zero alcohol left. If you suffer from anxiety its easy to give it a focus. Christmas is a stressful time. You may be short of sleep. If you have had a drink yourself it can heighten anxiety. I would say this is a time to focus on yourself and whatever works, good walk, soak in a bath, talk to trusted friend. Your adrenaline is playing havoc with your logical brain. It happens to most of us given the right/wrong circumstances

With OCD, it doesn’t matter what anyone here says. No-one can give you reassurance which will beat your thought patterns and obsessive thoughts. I say this from the experience of supporting my DH through OCD over many years.

I can only echo all the advice to see your GP as your current treatment isn’t working. It can be treated successfully.

And sending you an unmumsnetty hug because OCD is a horrible thing to live with.

Just read that you have a GP appointment today.

It can take a long time, but I’d push for a referral to adult mental health services. It takes specialist help to treat OCD.

@missladybird, alcohol evaporates when cooked. An even if it is not cooked, no one has EVER become an alcoholic because of alcohol in food. It doesn't work that way.

I hope you find the help you need. That last thing you want is to transfer your anxieties about food (or anything else) to your child.

Your Mum died because of her addiction to alcohol, which is considered a mental illness.

So it's the illness that killed her, the alcohol was just the means by which it happened.

Billions of people drink alcohol without it being any kind of problem. Maybe thinking of it in those terms would be helpful?

The wine isn't added to get you drunk, it's for flavour isn't it?

Yes, exactly. Just think, if gravy got you drunk then people would have to be IDed to buy it. They would have to put warnings on it so that people would know not to drive after eating it. Teenagers would be buying it and drinking it by the tubful with their mates. But of course none of those things happen because there is really no issue.

Some people who are in recovery for alcoholism will avoid foods with any alcohol at all in them, even sauces and puddings etc. But that’s not because the traces of alcohol are going to get them drunk or physically harm them. It’s just because of the psychological relationship they have with alcohol in all its forms, when they have a pre-existing addiction. I wonder if maybe that’s what’s causing some of your anxiety about this? If so, then please be assured that there really is NO issue. Your daughter does not have pre-existing problems with alcohol and a tiny trace of wine in her gravy (or even a whacking great glass of it!) isn’t going to bring them on.

Anyway, I’m so glad you’re feeling a bit calmer now and I hope the GP goes well!

DS (2 in December) currently tucking into port-soaked cheddar, and loving it. Didn't have any affect on him.

Wine in gravy is cooked, alcohol evaporates.

More alcohol in a ripe banana!

It's totally safe, don't worry and cheers for the holidays
mCleanNaomi the party fella

GP increased my medication and I've got counselling booked for the end of January. Feeling more positive so hope it lasts.

I went to Sainsbury's for some shopping after the docs and had a browse at the sauces etc for pasta and found that a lot of them contain wine. I think they just included it on the title of the gravy to make it sound more appealing.

OP, would it help to reduce it to a very straightforward proposition?

Tell yourself that boiled wine / beer / spirits do not have alcohol in them. By the time you eat it, they're just another non-alcoholic cooking ingredient.

"By the time you eat it, they're just another non-alcoholic cooking ingredient."

That's not really true, though. They don't contain much alcohol, but they're not alcohol free. Alcohol evaporates, but not fully even after several hours of cooking - see e.g. here from the US govt:
www.nal.usda.gov/sites/default/files/fnic_uploads/Alcohol-Retention.pdf

So you buy the ones without wine for use at home. Job done and nothing to worry about. It's not worth you trying to work out how much alcohol might or might not be in the sauce, it'll only make you worry.
It's in the title to make it sound more attractive and superior to a similar product, that's exactly right. The same as *Bramley apple" rather than "apple sauce" or " vine ripened tomatoes", "Cornish cream" etc.
I'm glad the doctor took you seriously and offered some practical help.

Considering kids of yore were given pints of ale before they went down the pits and babies were given gin rags to suck on to send them to sleep, I suspect your DD will be fine.

I have problems with alcohol as well and have avoided using any alcohol in cooking with DD.

When people say alcohol evaportates in cooking, they are wrong. Even after hours of cooking with the lid off, alcohol still remains. Alcohol in food For example, even after 30 minutes of simmering a sauce 40% of the alcohol you put in is still there.

That being said, I don't think you have to worry about. I don't think your toddler will have come to any harm.

I know how it feels to have a bad history with alcohol. My Mom is an alcoholic and even though I miss her so much, I haven't seen her in 5 years because I don't want DD to be exposed to her drinking problems and the way her personality changes when drinking.

My daughter had bad constipation on holiday when she was 6 months old and dr prescribed a chocolate laxative liquid sold over the counter. When I was trying to find something similar in U.K., I discovered its main ingredient was alcohol. I'm sure she is fine.

When she was 3 my DD "helped" clear the table by drinking all the wine left in the glasses. Cue one drunk toddler, I made her drink a lot of water to get it through her system. She is now an adult sand no harm has come to her long term, as an adult she rarely drinks anyway. I'm sure DC will be fine

I know I shouldn't because it's feeding the beast that is OCD but I've been looking at various supermarkets (online) and it seems that if you don't make your own or use granules then most shop bought gravies contain wine of some sort. Even lasagnes and Bolognese sauces contain red wine and are obviously safe for children to consume.

I can't believe I've let this take over my brain.