Aibu to next longer want to get married and to want the kids to have my name

[thiskittenbarks]

DP and me have been together 7 years. Known each other for almost 20 years. still no proposal. When we had been together a year he asked what type of engagement ring I'd like and I showed him some. We had no money then so I knew it wasn't really an option. But that was 6 years ago. When we decided to have a baby I said I'd only give baby his last name if we were going to get married. His response was that of course we were going to get married. We named baby his name and waited patiently for a proposal. Then I got less patient and we spoke about it and I was pretty upfront about how I felt - he's said we'd get married and I couldn't for the life of me understand what the fuck was taking him so long. We have a good amount of disposable income and he has significant savings that he keeps separate from our savings (I had presumed for a ring). I've said on numerous occasions I would be happy with a very inexpensive ring. I have showed him several rings that I like. DS is now 14 months and I'm am pregnant again. I know 3 couples who have got engaged within the last month who have known each other less time than we have had our DS. We have been on a few lovely holidays and each time I am sure he will do it and of course nothing. It was our anniversary last month and I was sure he was going to do it then. Since then I have just been absolutely furious with him.
I want to be with him. He's a wonderful person, and an amazing dad and partner. But I just do not want to get married or engaged to him anymore. I have so much anger and resentment about the issue that if he ever did propose I'd know I'd just tell him to fuck off. On our wedding day I'd just feel bitter.
Ambu in telling him I want the babies to have my name (or both our names) and that I no longer want to get married?

Why don't you suggest a run down to the registry office, OP? Maybe he doesn't fancy a big wedding. But if he doesn't accept the registry office idea, you will have to make sure you are financially secure enough to bring up your two children on your own.

I am fairly financially secure. He owns a slightly higher % of our flat than I do, and the land registry docs reflect this (we bought our flat after about a year and a half). But we let that place out and rent our house as we relocated last year. I work PT and earn about the same as him, but I do have to pay £7k a year on train travel that he doesn't have to so I earn less factoring that in. Mind you he pays for childcare which works out about the same. Full time I earn a bit more than him. In all honesty I don't think it's about money. I think he thinks he can just put everything off forever. And he can't, at least not without people getting very hurt.

I think he thinks he can just put everything off forever.

Why are you hurting yourself by sitting waiting for him for years to do something and wondering if he's on the same page as you until you are in the position that you are wondering about your babies surname due to anger and resentment?

We have had "grown up" conversations about getting married for years

You haven't had a grown up conversation if you haven't come to a conclusion/agreement of exactly if/when/how around a wedding/civil service and marriage and its left you trying to work out what he is thinking instead. Have another conversation and agree the details, e.g. do we both want to get married, do we want a wedding or simple registry office, will you propose or will we just organise it together, if you want to propose do it by valentines day/easter this year, and we'll have a small wedding in summer/autumn this year or a larger wedding the following summer.

He might want to be married but not have an expensive wedding you might expect, he might not want to be married but loves you deeply. You need to talk to find out and then you can make decisions based on fact.

It does sound like he might be put off by the big wedding thing. Even the mention of the word ‘venues’ is enough to put most people off.

Can you not just take charge a bit? Look for a gap when you’ve got a few days off and ask whether you should book something? Doesn’t have to be a registry office. Lots of hotels do packages so you won’t have to do much planning. My friend planned her wedding in a month and it was in a naice hotel who took care of everything!

Having a child with someone obviously doesn't mean they'll be in your life forever, and even if it did, their obligations would be to the child not you. Marriage is a contract, with certain legal and financial ramifications, that you can't get out of without engaging in a legal process. This isn't the case for having a child with a person.

It is true that when you have a child with someone, they may well be in your life forever, and they can if they're so minded use having a child with you to continue to exert an influence on you for many years. That's not the same as making a commitment to that person.

I don't agree that having a child is any guarantee of any future relationship between the couple involved. It just isn't. Sometimes it is and other times the two don't see each other or communicate from one year to the next. So forget about having a child for commitment. It is nearly always for the Mother.

I am glad to see finally there is a turning and that a lot of couples are now deciding to marry before starting to have children. It's the only sensible thing to do in most cases. It's hard to force a man into marriage if he has had years of procrastinating and saying oh yes next year maybe.

Agree with PP to just flat out ask him

If he refuses, then I would demand that you get yourselves down to a lawyer to draw up a cohabitation agreement, to agree the division of assets in the event of a separation, and put in place wills and ensure pension beneficiaries etc

Of course wills can be changed and no cohabitation agreement can bestow the same legal rights afforded by marriage, especially in the event of one partner's death

And a cohabitation agreement will cost several hundred £ for a bespoke legal arrangement, vs £100 or thereabouts for a registry office ceremony

If he refuses to marry but does agree to a CA then at least you have some legal protection (although nothing akin to what you'd get if you were married)

If he refuses to marry AND refuses to draw up a cohabitation agreement then you have your answer right there, he's not interested in offering you any financial protection and is more concerned about protecting his assets.

I don't get the sitting around waiting for a proposal or having children outside of marriage if that's what you wanted.

Grown ups talk about these things, you could have nipped to the registry office and been done within an hour. If he said no to that you would have known he didn't want to marry you and not TTC.

I said I'd only give baby his last name if we were going to get married

My friend did this.
They got married, 4 years into the marriage she found out he was having an affair and he left her.

You can't blackmail someone into marrying you.

Forgetting your kids for a second. Are you wanting a proposal? Or just marriage.

So you’ve spoken to him about it and he maintains that he still wants to get married? Can you not just speak to him again, decide to get married and set a date? Some people just don’t see marriage as being that important (I don’t).

I think the issue is more to do with the house.
I'd want a 50% stake or I'd be off.
The guy doesnt want to marry you and wants to keep all his money and the house for himself.

You told him your bottom line (only give his name if married), and then went against it.

You've played your hand poorly.

He doesn't want to marry you. Yes, I'd give the next baby your name. I'd also ask him to let you change or double barrel the first DC's. He'll probably say no though, since he's not that bothered about what you want.

He can't keep the house for himself though - as I legally own 45% of it. It's really not about the house.
Whenever I speak to him about it he says he wants to do it properly and propose etc. We'd set a provisional / imaginary date for May 2019 but I think he thinks that's all you have to do and that he'd get a ring a few days before or something. There has to be a cut off point and I feel like that is now.
I didn't say id not give the baby his name unless we were married- I said unless we were going to get married. Obviously I was aware I was not married to him.
Re doing it in a reg office- my only living sibling did this and told no one. My parents were absolutely heartbroken about this (and still are 10 years on). I'd really rather not do it that way although I understand that it should be about a marriage and not a wedding.
I really don't want to drag him kicking and screaming into a marriage.
I'm not going to leave a wonderful man, who is an incredible father over it. But PPs are right I do need to sort out some legal protection for myself.

Sadly somethings do break and become worthless. This thing you have looked forwards to so much has now become bent and broken. You only have to decide if you can compromise. I compromised and I have no regrets.

@HopingForSomeSnow that's exactly how it feels. All the excitement has turned into bitterness. Im so fed up. It's like I've asked him to put up a shelf or something.

"he has significant savings that he keeps separate from our savings"
Hmm.

"Re doing it in a reg office- my only living sibling did this and told no one. My parents were absolutely heartbroken about this (and still are 10 years on)."
Your parents need to get a grip. It's not about them. You (will) have two children by this man, do they seriously expect the whole virgin-in-white schtick?

"Whenever I speak to him about it he says he wants to do it properly and propose etc."
OK, I wouldn't actually say this, but think it inside your head just to blow some steam off -
"Well the time for doing it your-idea-of-properly has now passed. We are now at the stage where we need to take care of practicalities, for the children. I do not want a proposal or a big fancy wedding, I want a marriage certificate, and I want to have this all done and dusted by March. Two witnesses and having the banns read is all we need. If you won't organise that, then I think I can safely assume you don't want to be married to me, and we need to talk about that. You first."

And breath.

"I have so much anger and resentment about the issue that if he ever did propose I'd know I'd just tell him to fuck off. On our wedding day I'd just feel bitter."
This is the important thing. It has the potential to affect your relationship, permanently. It's hard to respect someone when they spark resentment in you; and eventually, loss of respect leads to loss of love .

I think this is what you need to have a conversation about. How this lackadaisical approach is making you feel. Tell him about the anger and resentment. Tell him it is affecting how you feel about your relationship. And tell him that his 'do it properly' notion is now a problem for you. He has had many opportunities to propose, hasn't taken any of them, and you need to know if you are planning a future as his wife, or just as his bidey-in. Because you need to make different financial arrangements for YOURSELF depending on those two circumstances.

He has pissed about for long enough.

Well if you’ve set the provisional date for May 2019 then get his arse in gear. Tell him you want to look at venues in the new year. They soon book up.

Registry office doesn’t mean that parents miss out. They can still come and you can do lunch afterwards.

No Ring No Name

Sit him down on Boxing Day (why fuck around, he’s wasted enough of your time) and tell him you’re getting married. If he tries to back out, you need to find out exactly why. You say you won’t leave him, so what incentive does he have to bother marrying you? Don’t mean to be rude, OP, but seriously, it sounds like he’s not interested in marrying. Is he aware of the legal implications and protection for you and the DC?

isnt "do what i want or i'll officially disconnect you from your children" on some level emotional abuse...

pull on your adult pants and have the conversation about your future without making emotionally manipulative threats...

if it means that much to you, propose to him and see what happens...

I think your children need the same name. Why not change yours to his by deed poll then you'd have the same name and you don't need his permission for this.

My first daughter was due on mine and my boyfriends 10th anniversary of us being together. We had obviously talked about getting married beforehand and he very much know I wanted to but had never asked. Like you we gave our dd his surname because ‘one day it would be mine’, no proposal through. Then totally out the blue 2 years later about a week before I was due with 2nd dd he went to the kitchen to get a beer and came back with a engagement ring and proposed. I have never been so shocked in my life. Things then got in the way, 2 young children, a house move, a business, a second house move, renovations and a 3rd dd and I kind of got used to not being married. Fast forward 4 years and this time last year we received a obscene tax bill which resulted in our accountant joking that we should get married so I could become a director of the business and split his shares in the business without having to pay capital gains. Not the most romantic of reasons but we got married in April this year, very quietly, just how I wanted to and are now expecting dd number 4 any day and today marks 17years together. He’s my best friend and I couldn’t imagine not being with him. Just give him time but honestly marriage isn’t everything xx

Why on earth would anyone do that?

Why couldn't your parents attend your wedding if you have it in a registry office? No-one is saying you shouldn't tell anybody until after it's done. It's just that you don't have to go the whole hog with a fancy wedding.

My first wedding was a registry office one with about 30 guests, and afterwards we all went back to my dad's house, where dad, nan and mum had laid out a buffet.
It didn't cost very much as we were on a tight budget, and it was organised in about a month.