to still be upset about the unwanted touching my friends and I got last night

[ilovewelshrarebit123]

We're three late forties women who went out for our annual Christmas drinks last night.

As it was the last Friday before Christmas we knew it would be busy and people would be drunk, but we couldn't meet any other night so went with it.

We weren't out looking for men, we just wanted a catch up, a giggle and a good gossip!

In the space of five hours all three of us were inappropriately touched by men. I had my breast touched by a man who decided I had something on my black top so he wanted to 'rub' it off. There was nothing on my top and he was told not to touch me. I was called a 'miserable bitch'.

My friend had her bottom touched twice by the same man. This was while he passed by her and she asked him politely not to touch her.

Other friend was pushed into a corner and grabbed round her waist. Again he was asked not to touch her which was met with indignation that she was a boring cow!

If we managed to find a seat to chat men would tell us we were boring, smile etc

Why do we put up with this shit? Why do some men think they have the right to do and say crap like this to three women out for drink and chat!

All three of us just shrugged it off at the time, but we've since had a text convo agreeing it's just sad and not on.

Anyway, rant over and merry Christmas everyone!

OK vladimirpoutine explain to me where the consent is in the immaculate conception?

Wow! I had to read that twice to really appreciate it. I'm still blinking in awe. We're officially through the looking glass.

OK vladimirpoutine explain to me where the consent is in the immaculate conception?

Wow! I had to read that twice to really appreciate it. I'm still blinking in awe. We're officially through the looking glass.

Right. So first I am offensive. Now you insult me. But what is the answer?

I was having a conversation with my mum and my aunt last week about how rapidly more and more historical sexual assault incidents are coming to light and the amount of experiences they themselves were able to relay from the 70s was shocking

My apologies Jacques, I obviously didn't refresh the page. I only saw your comment after I posted my original one. A bad habit of having too many windows open at the same time

Thank goodness I thought I was going loopy. No need to apologise at all. Just couldn't work out how I was missing it

Apparently you should just tell them where to go

And men are now confused about what they can and can’t not say or do

This is according to someone guys I work with

Why should women manage men’s behaviour it’s all very simple don’t say or do anything and just be polite

Apparently you should just tell them where to go

Yes! This is an issue for many people. The answer is not to sit back and wait for things to right itself because it's right. A bit of fight in life. Tell the idiot you work with. The twat who rubs against you. No point sat here saying it's unfair or not right.

Mmm it’s up to others to be responsible for their own actions not for woman/girls to manage their actions

And many times I have responded with a negative and then insulted or what they perceive as an insult

Men don’t have to make comments, touch in appropriately the world won’t come to a stop if they stop haraasing women

‘Tell them where to go’ isn’t fair advice though - not everyone is capeable of that. Freezing is a totally legitimate response to someone touching you without your consent and there’s plenty of reasons that a woman might freeze.

Plus, you can only tell them where to go after they’ve done it. And I don’t believe that all these men are groping strange women because they think that women like it. They do it because they want to, and they can.

What we need is men taking the lead on this - making sure they don’t do it themselves and telling their friends/colleagues/sons not to do it. If every man said ‘I don’t do that and I won’t stand for it being done around me’, that would be the problem solved.

Or, what Enthusiasm said in much fewer words! Haha!

The answer is not to sit back and wait for things to right itself because it's right. A bit of fight in life. Tell the idiot you work with. The twat who rubs against you. No point sat here saying it's unfair or not right.

Errr, what? The onus is on men not to harass and assault women. Not on women to show a bit of “fight” when it happens. Besides, if a man has shown himself to be the type of person who considers it acceptable to harass or assault someone, then a woman might easily feel afraid of ‘standing up to him’ in case his behaviour escalates into something even worse.

Agree with those above why is it up to us to tell sex pests where to go. It's not up to us to educate men on what is acceptable behaviour apart from anything else they fucking well already know it's not. How about we start holding men to account for their actions instead and let them take the lead in not doing it in the first place.

olivinacampervan Do not call me naive and ignorant.

In the late 60’s and early 70’s I was heavily (every night except Mondays Tuesdays and Thursdays) into the club scene in the London area and was also part of 'Northern Soul’ crowd and I was never groped. Not once. My close friend lived and worked in London and she was groped on the tube several times and we were all shocked - we would NOT have been shocked if it was a regular occurrence. I remember sitting around in a group brain storming of ways to stop it - she ended up using a hat pin to poke the molesters with.

I have lived in the U.S since the early 70’s and I am shocked at what has happened to England in the last 45 years. Something has gone terribly wrong there and instead of calling me names maybe you should be wondering what has changed there to turn many parts into such shit-holes. I do check in with the UK online newspapers now and again and see photos of girls vomiting, drunk in the streets.

Believe it or not we were not face down drunk in the street, puking our guts up when we were having a nice night out on the town and the boys didn’t have their hands down our knickers. It seems many men have lost respect for women.

It’s a shame, it used to a nice country. I didn’t come home for decades and when I did I saw vandalism every where - the graffiti, destroyed bus shelters, metal shutters on shops, angry people shouting/swearing at each other, bags of dog shit swinging in the trees and shrubbery, over-crowding etc etc. It is not the same place as it was when I left and it is heartbreaking for me. I tried to take a photo of a Kingfisher next to a brook but there was so much trash on the banks I couldn’t.

What changed to make it like this?

Huppopappa - you ask where the consent is for Mary’s conception of Jesus? Can I refer you to the thread you started on this earlier this evening and the responses you received there?

I do check in with the UK online newspapers now and again and see photos of girls vomiting, drunk in the streets.

What exactly does that have to do with the OP, which was about three women being harassed and assaulted while having a drink in a pub?

It seems many men have lost respect for women.

I couldn’t really care less if men “have lost respect for women” - how they feel about women is up to them. However, no matter how they feel, they need to realise it is never acceptable to harass or assault someone. It’s not difficult.

Course it's not on us. But where does the change happen?? People sitting back and waiting for people to understand it's not right. Unfortunately in this life you have to stand up for yourself. Sometimes it works to fight back. Sometimes it doesn't. Surely it's best to look out for yourself??

Thanks Aridane. Infact this was the earlier thread and the absence of an answer inspired the other one. Though oddly, the original reference on this thread has been removed for some reason.

But looking out for yourself means keeping yourself safe in the situation you’re in. Confronting a man who is intimidating or harassing you isn’t always the safest thing to do. If a woman decides that the best option is to walk away from the situation (and have a rant on MN later!) then she’s entitled to do that. The responsibility for men’s behaviour lies with them, not with women.

IkeaGrinch- Fair point. I'm more of the thinking that if you want change you have to make a stand regardless of right/wrong. You're right with your point though.

That's horrible. I'be got no wisdom here, it's just plain old unacceptable. My only suggestion is to write to the pub, explain and ask them put up signs saying anyone inappropriately touching customers will be thrown out. Just an idea!

Though oddly, the original reference on this thread has been removed for some reason.

Nothing odd about it. You'd asserted a patently offensive opinion with next to zero insight of its implications or inferences.

It's odd because there is a six page thread that is still there!

I'd hope so. Perhaps you're better informed as a result of it.

Rwalker shouldn't have been assaulted. But it doesn't "even up" the ongoing and persistent objectification of way more women than men. Bad choice of wording, or ignorance on his part. Still no need to minimise his experience.

He has now derailed the thread and made it all about him. Fucking typical Erm no. Those who minimised it derailed it.

Young girls drinking a lot isn’t really relevant to this thread which is about 3 middle aged women.
Again though why are we blaming the women? It shouldn’t be up to women to take steps to protect themselves from getting attacked. It’s up to men to take steps to stop themselves from attacking.
Sarah Silverman’s rape prevention tips are a great reference for any man not sure of how not to assault a woman on a night out,

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