to still be upset about the unwanted touching my friends and I got last night

[ilovewelshrarebit123]

We're three late forties women who went out for our annual Christmas drinks last night.

As it was the last Friday before Christmas we knew it would be busy and people would be drunk, but we couldn't meet any other night so went with it.

We weren't out looking for men, we just wanted a catch up, a giggle and a good gossip!

In the space of five hours all three of us were inappropriately touched by men. I had my breast touched by a man who decided I had something on my black top so he wanted to 'rub' it off. There was nothing on my top and he was told not to touch me. I was called a 'miserable bitch'.

My friend had her bottom touched twice by the same man. This was while he passed by her and she asked him politely not to touch her.

Other friend was pushed into a corner and grabbed round her waist. Again he was asked not to touch her which was met with indignation that she was a boring cow!

If we managed to find a seat to chat men would tell us we were boring, smile etc

Why do we put up with this shit? Why do some men think they have the right to do and say crap like this to three women out for drink and chat!

All three of us just shrugged it off at the time, but we've since had a text convo agreeing it's just sad and not on.

Anyway, rant over and merry Christmas everyone!

So many posters who think things are fairly 'evenly matched' in the world of sexual violence: it's a truly weird thing.

I don't think people are dismissing rwalkers experience, it's the fact that it was prefaced by mention of "evening things up". Unnecessary and inappropriate imo.

YANBU OP. When I was in my twenties and went out regularly, we would go to gay clubs to avoid this kind of thing.

'Works both ways', 'it's 50:50' er no you twat, it isn't.

I spilt a drink all over the bloke who decided it was reasonable to put his hand up my skirt and into my knickers.
He and his mates went round the bar pouring dregs into a pint glass and then tipped it over me.
I was 18 & staying with relatives in England. We left the bar and went home to my Aunts. My cousins were disgusted I'd made such a fuss. My Aunt told me my behaviour might be acceptable in Ireland, but that's not how people behave in England. I've been very uncomfortable in crowds ever since and I'm 46 now.

How does it even things up Milton. Can you explain?

It doesn't, and the reasons should have been explained rather than a rather dismissive, one sentence comment from some posters.

e.g. the first 3 responses:

"Do you think that 'evens things up' rwalker?"

"that definitely makes it all even :|

"Have you ever had your balls cupped by a man rwalker? Just curious."

@Milton absolutely his story isn't being dismissed.

See above, it does seem a bit dismissive to me.

But the fact he posted to "redress the balance" is

Again, as above, explain to him why it really really doesn't 'make it even'. Then (hopefully) he'll understand. One line put downs never help imo.

Many men think that women think like they do. For instance, on dating sites they post pictures of them with their shirts lifted up and then send dick pics to women, because they would love for a woman to expose her chest for them and send them vag pics. They cannot comprehend that a woman is not turned on by a photo of some random man's penis. We are in fact disgusted - or amused.

Same with when women are out with friends for a get together and catch-up. The men are out with their friends looking for a one night stand and believe the women are as well. When they leer at you dancing it is because they believe you are doing it for their entertainment and not just to have fun with your friends. This is probably redundant to most of you but it just occurred to me when I was much older.

We can stop it by raising our sons up to understand that women are not visually stimulated the same way men are and we are not impressed with a man who treats us as if we are objects to be groped and insulted. When a man touches you, against your will, you shout, create a scene to embarrass him. ‘Oh my god! Why did you do that to me?. That is disgusting. GET OFF ME!’ or ‘OH MY GOD WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME”?

Can you a carry mace and/or stun guns in the UK?

RochelleGoyle You wrote; "It's completely unacceptable and it makes me feel sick that some men still have the fucking nerve to behave like this”. STILL behave like this? I don’t remember men groping us in the 60’s/70’s. The only time I recall someone being groped was a friend of mine on the tube. It sounds to me like this behavior is increasing.

A friend of mine slapped a pervert who shoved his hand in her knickers in a club. She was arrested, he was let off as there was 'no proof' he did anything where there were witnesses to her slapping him. She has a record even to this day whilst I presume he is still groping random strangers.

@milton, it's the fact @rwalker said his alleged ball-cupping incident, has 'evened things up.' Like that happening to him makes everything that happens to women OK, coz U know, shit happens to men too! 🤨🙄

Sorry about what happened to you OP, but not shocked, as this is the kind of fucking shit women tolerate on a day to day basis. So much so, that most women don't even mention it anymore.

So typical of a man to come on a thread like this though, and minimise what happened to the OP, with his own 'traumatic' event. 🤨🙄

He has now derailed the thread and made it all about him. Fucking typical.

This

When a man is groped by a woman, he is unlikely to fear being followed jumped on beaten up and raped by her later.

I was followed home in my teens from night school and attacked in a phone box ffs (many moons ago)

It left me with the mental load of planning my journey home every fucking time I went out in my 20's.

I'm much more angry about this shit, these days. Bottom line is women are not men's public property on a night out.

" Mind you, given that we are just about to celebrate the birth of the little baby cheeses, whose mother who was raped (that being what impregnation without consent is)

Light-hearted or not this comment is offensive and patently distasteful. "

OK vladimirpoutine explain to me where the consent is in the immaculate conception? Unless you can, then I fail to see how I can be said to be offensive. Rapists rely on people not calling them out. Apologising for them, covering up for them, refusing to accept the holes in their story: THOSE are offensive.

My mum told me that in the 70s in was incredibly common to be letched after and touched at the local social clubs, and horrifyingly, youth club. Lots of "come and sit on my knee" stuff, bum patting and the like. We were only talking about this last week as we were chatting about what was accepted behaviour and how much things had changed.

STILL behave like this? I don’t remember men groping us in the 60’s/70’s. The only time I recall someone being groped was a friend of mine on the tube. It sounds to me like this behavior is increasing.

Yes STILL. Women have always been sexually harassed by men, since the dawn of time. To suggest it never happened pre 1970's is incredibly naive and ignorant.

@milton, it's the fact @rwalker said his alleged ball-cupping incident, has 'evened things up.'

Now this is my point @oliveinacampervan

You know it doesn't even things up and I know it doesn't even things up. So do most of the posters on this thread. My point was explain to him why it doesn't even things up.

^ Obviously the thread has moved on and people have explained why, but my original post was made before that happened.

Again, as above, explain to him why it really really doesn't 'make it even'. Then (hopefully) he'll understand. One line put downs never help imo

I did. In my very first post to him

^ refer to my post just above yours Jacques

Do you think that 'evens things up' rwalker

That's a perfectly valid question fgs.

This is exactly why I don't go out in town. We usually go to a restaurant where we can stay the night having a good giggle

refer to my post just above yours Jacques

I did. I don't understand what you mean? My first post referencing the "evening up" was at 8.20?

Its the speed at which they turn nasty that bothers me. You never know if its going to escalate into outright violence or not.

rwalker Imagine having your balls cupped by a 6'3 bodybuilder who's snarling at you that he's going to rip them off. Its more like that.

I'm sorry but I was born in the early 70's and I remember being perved at by the newsagent when I went in to buy sweets. As I hit my teens in the 80's there were at least three incidents that I can recall that were particularly nasty (A neighbour and his todger, another flasher in the park and being spunked on, on my way home on a crowded tube train). It was later that I realised that all those packed tubes at hometime where people "accidentally" brushed up against you were not so accidental (Naive flower that I was)

I worked in offices and there was that honourable code of "Mr Green in accounts in the corner office wants to see me, please interrupt with a Q if I'm not out in 5" amongst co-workers/women.

There has always been that undercurrent of violence, but I personally was only really sub-consciously aware of it for a long time. (By sub consciously I mean that I just accepted it for what it was and planned accordingly, thinking it was my actions/behaviour/decisions that were responsible.

I have boys and I teach them that they are totally responsible for their own behaviour and that they have a choice in how they respond to other people's behaviour. That they are much more likely to get seriously hurt/assaulted if they behave like dicks on a night out and that they are all responsible for themselves and friends getting home safe (And that women have as much right to go about their business in peace, like every human being)

My first post referencing the "evening up" was at 8.20?

My apologies Jacques, I obviously didn't refresh the page. I only saw your comment after I posted my original one. A bad habit of having too many windows open at the same time

About 10 years ago I was having a great night out with my friends at a club. Walking to the dancefoor, minding my own business, and some bloke grabbed my bum so hard it hurt me. I’ve never slapped anyone before but I was so incensed that he dare touch me that way-I did slap him round the face. He then smacked me back, twice as hard. Interestingly, several people told me “well, you shouldn’t have smacked him first”. Made me feel deeply in the wrong. Now? I’d tell anyone to do the same.