To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

I’m no expert but for a start, it takes several weeks to come through and people are left starving in the meantime.

I think it is (wrongly) designed to be terrible, to force people off benefits and in to work.

People who are claiming it as an in work benefit get taken off it in a five week month for earning 'too much' and then have to reapply. Same for those who work in a company who pay early for Christmas.

Waiting period to start is six or seven weeks. This is deliberate as apparently some mp's think that's how it works in the real world.

I agree with shoulda, it is designed to get people off benefits.

As is the 2 child cap. Its to deter people from having children they can't afford, which is good in a way but not good for those families who have already got children they need to feed.

My friend has moved onto it. It’s stupid. Her and her dh were getting working tax and child tax credit. Then universal credit took over. Their tax credit stopped and they had to apply for universal. They did the applications online which you have to do individually. Then ring up for an app. They both went then discovered they had to have two separate apps which they weren’t told on the phone. Then once after your apps they link your accounts together. Payment takes 6 weeks but you only get a months worth of money so they don’t back pay.

Any childcare costs have to be sent to them via an invoice by a certain day of the month. If it’s late you don’t get them.

My friend is a sahm. Because her child is 2 once he turns 3 they will make her look for work as her son is entitled to 30 hours of free nursery a week. So in effect they are saying you can’t stay at home.

If there’s 5 weeks in a month you don’t get that months payment as it’s “over your monthly allowance” so they sign you off it and then you have to reapply.

It’s going to Put a lot of people in the shit

1. there's a long wait to get it, and if you're in a situation where you need it, you are unlikely to have savings to tie you over, so that's over a month of not being able to pay your rent (let alone luxuries like food). There are reports that it has hugely increased the number of tenants in arrears

2. it's paid monthly, so for people whose pay is calculated or paid weekly, where there are 5 pay-calculation days in a month, their apparent but not real pay increase means they get less credit for that month and they have to re-apply to get it to go back up

3. it rolls together a lot of benefits, which sound efficient and easy to understand, but in practice people are finding their total sum reduced.

4. Although there is a 6-week wait for the fist payment, this is proving to be a minimum - a lot of people are reported to be waiting a lot longer.

At least six weeks waiting period. It may be possible to get a 50% advance (loan) until that comes through, but finding a Jobcentre employee to help with that is nigh on impossible.

Single disabled people that claim will be £60 worse off than if they were claiming under the old system.

It's got so bad that in live areas (as opposed to a full service area) claimants are now being directed back to the old legacy benefits.

Gosh, I don't know. If only there were loads of insightful, intelligent articles online that could be accessed by, oh, let's say, some kind of mechanism - almost like an 'engine' - that searched the internet.

My friend is a sahm. Because her child is 2 once he turns 3 they will make her look for work as her son is entitled to 30 hours of free nursery a week. So in effect they are saying you can’t stay at home.

but why is this a bad thing? if she gets 30 hours of free childcare a week and relies on benefits to be a Sahm, then going to work with a 3 year old is not really cruel, is it?

There is a longer wait for payments to start, going from 4 to 6 weeks I believe.

All benefits are combined meaning that a single payment is made rather than staggered throughout the month.

As the payment is combined the benefits cap applies so the money people receive on Universal Credit can be quite a bit less than they received with seperate payments.

I agree with the notion that it's designed to force people in to work.
The waiting time; from claim to money in your account is 5/6 weeks but in the meantime you're pretty much left to your own devices - unless you claim an advance which has to be repaid anyway.
The whole idea behind it is to ensure that a life on benefits as it were, is not an attractive prospect.

One of my worries is lumping different payments together means that if it stopped you have nothing else coming in.

Years ago DH and I had to claim housing benefit as we had a low income. We claimed for about 18 months, in that time our payments were wromgly stopped with no notice twice and we had to go through a whole rigmarole of posting off wage slips wait for them to be checked. Luckily we still had other money coming in. If that happens to someone relying on on UC they don't have other money coming in.

Problems are: 1). is designed to make people in receipt of it plan and budget monthly (as if they were a Tory on a nice salary), but this doesn't work in practice. People on v low incomes are used to receiving benefits fortnightly. After the 7 day lie period there is a 4 week assessment period and a weeks wait before they get anything. This means you can be stony broke, go to the state today to apply for support, but will not receive any for 6 weeks (you can now req an advance but it's not automatic). 2). Contacting the DWP is very difficult. You can't go into an office to make enquiries. It is all meant to be done online. If you are crap with IT? Tough, you will need to learn. 3). All the good bits which were meant to make it more generous for those moving into work were stripped back as part of austerity. UC isn't really making things financially better for anyone. 3 ). Personal changes under UC are assessed in a very crude way. This makes it easier for them to administrate, but can make you v lucky or unlucky depending on when your change in circs happens. Eg. Having baby, taking a tenancy etc, partner movimg in or out. 4). Housing costs are paid direct to claimant -can then put in a request to pay directly to landlord if vulnerable. This causes huge problems for tenants and landlords. There are some things to get the ball rolling!

Its designed to force people into work...but its also claimed by working families. So its not fair to punish them.

I'm dreading its introduction in my area.

The whole idea behind it is to ensure that a life on benefits as it were, is not an attractive prospect.

They punish a majority to deter a tiny minority.

Which is the attitude of this government towards anything related to vulnerable people.

Agreed, @Ginger. Why should she not work, assuming she is capable of it, doesn't have additional caring responsibilities, and can actually access the free childcare? I don't think there is a "right" to be a SAHM.

As well as the above it all needs to be done online which is fine if you can understand it, access the Internet and afford something to have the Internet on. Not everyone can
Any changes in circumstances need reporting immediately - birth, death etc as no back dating and I think if there is a change in circumstances or you start work you loose all the months payment even if you start work on the 29th month
It is to 'incentivise' people into work but those working part time to fit round children etc are not deemed to be working enough and being forced to apply for or take jobs with more hours even of on less pay even if they are happy with the pay, job etc

When people got tax credits they could end up with large overpayments as they were based on annual earnings. With UC the payments are updated monthly depending how much you earn in your assessment nperiod so amounts can vary each month. Now people are complaining that they don't know what ( if anything) they are going to be paid.
Some people don't like the change which means you can be asked to look for work once your youngest child turns 3. However I think this is fair enough. Under tax credits you could chose to have a sahp until your youngest child left education - this option is now gone.
Under tax credits you can have thousands of pounds in the bank and still get tax credits as it was just based on earned income. under UC yu cannot claim it if you have savings over 16k.
I think a lot of the problems have arisen because the staff havent been very well trained and therefore errors are ocurring. The 5 wee wait is causing a lot of problems also, but i think that is being changed.
You need to have a computer to apply. I am having a number of clients who are older and not computer literate. Everything has to be updated on a jouranl. Some people are struggling with this.

It has and is particularly going to hit low paid working people.

The self employed, particular those with fluctuating trading will struggle. After trading for one year it will assume your business is paying the equivalent of full time minimum wage; and deduct it from any benefit;and in a better period you will earn too much. But you cannot average out over whole year so likely to a lot worse off than were on WTC and CTC.

Even employed people working less than full time will have to show additional job seeking activity, which if not sufficient in the subjective view of the work coach will result in sanctions.

People on variable hours/zero hours will find that they will rarely be awarded the right level of benefit because the system is really only geared up to stable earnings. Any overpayments will be repaid regardless of whose error it was.

There are faults with UC. Especially the waiting period. But it is designed to get people off benefits. And as for people not allowed to be SAHM's. Anybody can be an SAHM or choose never to work at all for whatever reason. But what they can't do is rely on other people's taxes supporting them. And this is quite fair IMHO.

@Terramirabilis I obviously don't know the person or situation in question but from hearing about similar circumstances - it's nigh on impossible to find a job that would accommodate those (set) nursery hours. And if you go down the route of paying for more nursery hours it might result in working for a (net) loss.

Yes self employed people will be hard hit. the government is intent on weeding out those people claiming to be self employed yet coming out with £2 an hour actual earnings - facebook / ebay selling/ pyramid selling schemes/ Avon etc. people have been claiming working tax credits yet earning next to nothing from self employment.

35 hours per week jobsearch if unemployed. Every hour of jobseeking activity to be accounted for and logged in the journal.

I'm glad this self-employed loophole is being closed. It's a shame for the genuine people struggling to start a new business but there were two many cf's taking advantage IMHO.

I have plenty of joint claiming WORKING couples/singles with children who’ve been transferred over and just had endless endless endless problems with their claims. The administration is beyond dire. Elements left out, information mis-recorded, losing vital information etc. They are told different stories by different people and still no money. They fall in to rent arrears, can’t pay the nursery, can’t put the heating on.....

Then you have the nothing for about 8 weeks once you claim situation here if your situation changes .....so you were claiming as a couple under tax credits, he fucks off.....No benefits for 8 weeks....

I’ve never handed out so many food bank vouchers, never seen so mental health deterioration (make referrals but they can’t solve life problems! How much is this all costing the NHS? It’s all a horrible mess......).