To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

As is the 2 child cap. Its to deter people from having children they can't afford, which is good in a way but not good for those families who have already got children they need to feed.

I don't understand how UC will be calculated but I thought it was not retrospectively applied? So it's a disincentive to have more than two children if you don't work but it wouldn't affect people who already had 3+ children. Or have I got that wrong?

Awwwwlookat

You need to read this about social landlords and Universal Credit.

speyejoe2.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/social-sic-landlords-create-tenant-poverty-in-universal-credit/

Circumstances do change, people lose jobs, become ill, relationships breakdown; all manner of things happen. But I don't think the state should be picking up the tab for a woman who can't work around the children she chose to have. Neither staying at home, nor being a parent is a right.

By the time uc hits my area we won't be entitled to anything as I'll hopefully be qualified but we would of been hit hard. Dh started a business 2014 and it's always gradually gone up since he started it but still there's certain times of the year (xmas a good example) where work for him dries up and it ends up him earning less than min wage but it still suits us.. I am a student nurse so sometimes I have study from home so he can work tons then when I am on placement he has to juggle hours round me and childcare... yes there are self employed people who take the piss aka younique sellers but there are plenty of genuine ones like my husband. Uc is a bloody shambles as far as I am concerned! I wish they would concentrate more on the huge tax avoidance and tax evasion problems we have. The rich are hoarding money it's not dave down the pub claiming job seekers so he can smoke his amber leaf and have a pint on a Friday night

As is the 2 child cap. Its to deter people from having children they can't afford, which is good in a way but not good for those families who have already got children they need to feed.

The 2 child cap doesn’t apply retrospectively... only for children born after a certain date (which I don’t have to hand).

It applies to children born after 6 April 2017

"
My youngest two get the 30 hours, it’s 8.40 until 11.40 Monday to Friday."
I don't understand that

Myusername - I live in Norfolk and we went live with UC at the beginning of the year.

It's been an awful time for people moving over (I work in the community) mainly cause the staff in job centres didn't know the rules either as they kept changing. We trained in UC before it rolled out and that training was old before it even started.

However, you only move into uc if there are changes to your acc and not all changes will trigger it. I still claim some tax credit top up despite job changes and income changes. These haven't triggered a move to uc. It's new claimants and changes like a move to area, a partner moving in/out etc.. Most people worrying shouldn't need to change.

It's assumed that self-employed people earn 30 x NMW per week. So people running hobby businesses like crafting or Avon will have to find paid work or develop their business into something more lucrative because UC won't pay as much as working tax credit did.

My youngest two get the 30 hours, it’s 8.40 until 11.40 Monday to Friday.

that's 15h - I guess the poster doesn't get 30h as she is not working. thought both parents have to work to get the 30h?

My friend is a sahm. Because her child is 2 once he turns 3 they will make her look for work as her son is entitled to 30 hours of free nursery a week. So in effect they are saying you can’t stay at home.

This is one of the upsides of UC. People have the right to be a SAHP but it shouldn't ever be at the cost of others. It's a decision that the household income must support not benefits.

It also closed the loop hole more on self employment as it was abused under WTC to simply get round the benefits cap.

It had to be tougher, tax credits encourage people to not work or old very little. Something had to change.

It's obviously got problems and I know it has hit a lot of people very hard, but I could never understand why it was sensible that people had to refuse extra work because they would 'go over' their 'allowed' hours and lose out in tax credits. Similarly, the idea that someone could in effect have 20 yrs off work for each child they chose to have is insane.

Housing benefit will be paid directly to the claimant rather than their LL. However what about those with additions. Who might spend their housing benefit money on alcohol or drugs, and before you criticsize these people are ill.

That has to be the most pathetic thing I've read on here. So rent should be paid directly to the person as they might be an addict and need the money for drugs/alcohol?

In some areas they have stopped anyone new claiming UC as it’s not working

Vulnerable adults can fill in a form to have rent payments paid direct to landlord. They don't have to though so it relies on the claimant recognising they may struggle...

I've spent hours with residents every week helping them use computers to access their accounts and fill in their journals. So many people don't know how to use computers or have access to the Internet etc the film I Daniel Blake is real life for many many people.

blueface people are scared to go over their hours because it messes up everything. You end up paying back overpayments and ending up in a mess. You also have the ballache of childcare if you work outside of your regular hours on an adhoc basis.
Universal credit in principle should avoid this admin nightmare but the administration is dire and forcing people to wait 6/7/8 weeks longer is inhumane.
I'm dreading it. I work 16 hours per week and if you work two hours over its pretty much taken off you and you have to declare this to the tax credits office and trot down to the housing office. Imagine doing this every week. You can see why people don't even though morally its the right thing to do.

I was made redundant. For me the process worked OK. I attended the job centre weekly and had to prove what jobs I had applied for and what interviews I had attended. I was very fortunate to find new employment quickly. I didn't have to wait very long for my payment. There is help available to write a CV, courses, local job vacancies if you need it. Surely everyone should be better off working, compared to being on benefits. However, there needs to be enough jobs for everyone. With the invention of the Internet there should be more job opportunities in theory, more flexibility, more odd hour/time zone jobs.

@Viviennemary the government encouraged people to go self employed to keep unemployment figures down.

That has to be the most pathetic thing I've read on here. So rent should be paid directly to the person as they might be an addict and need the money for drugs/alcohol?

Other way round. Housing Benefit used to be paid directly to landlords. For the landlords that meant a "benefit tenant" would get their rent paid pretty reliably.

Then it was decided that making the payments directly was too much work for local councils it would be easier to just give the money to the tenants. That change came long before Universal Credit. For landlords this now means that "benefit tenants" may be unreliable rent payers. I'd predict this has increased the level of (lawful) discrimination by landlords against unemployed and underemployed people.

To be clear: I think the direct payment of HB was a lot better.

coco

Yes the two child rule does apply to those born before the date UNLESS transitional protection applies.

The thing that gets me is

Two people both work 16hpw at NMW if we want to be precise about it they could have the same job for the same company and work exactly the same shifts.

One gets paid monthly the other weekly.

The monthly paid staff member is fine the weekly paid one gets capped for the majority of the year.

Oh and a huge huge amount of kids will lose the child element a full year before they would on tax credits smack in the middle of their level 3 course.

If there’s 5 weeks in a month you don’t get that months payment as it’s “over your monthly allowance” so they sign you off it and then you have to reapply.

I think that "reapply" in this context means login to your UC account on the internet and spending a few minutes ticking a few boxes, so not as bad as it sounds. (Not speaking from experience, just something I remember from another thread.)

Like most people I am not looking forward to UC roll out. I am both employed and self-employed (majority of income from self employment). At the moment, my income is averaged over the year and my tax credits are calculated accordingly. On UC income is assessed monthly. Perhaps someone can find me a business which has steady income all year round? I know mine doesn't.
So, some months I will earn more so my payments will reduce. On the months I earn less, I will be calculated as making the minimum income floor (NMWx30hrs) and UC will be calculated on that. In 2014/15 I know there was over £800 difference in income between my most lucrative month and the lowest earning month.
Before anyone starts, overall my business earns me more than NMW. I have long term health problems which mean that I can't work more than I currently do. Legacy benefits got me back into work and slowly I have built up the amount I can work without making my health worse. Self employment and tax credits gave me the flexibility to take on more work when I was able. I no longer claim HB or CTB and am claiming less and less tax credit year on year. UC makes me very uneasy as I don't feel that safety net is there anymore should my health worsen. I want to work; I work hard; I also want the reassurance of a safety net if things go wrong - that is what welfare is supposed to be for.

donajimena so is the 16 hr limit still the same under UC?