To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

What counts as a child for UC purposes? Up to 16? 18?

Thanks Nightshirt. I hope I'll continue to get transitional protection for as long as I can and not make any changes that might force me to switch to UC before having to migrate. But when inflation makes the transitional amount less than the CA my mum could be getting, it will make more sense for her to claim it. She used to claim CA for me as she was living with me for a while so I have looked into the rules around claiming it before. She will stay overnight for one day a week if necessary, as that will easily make up the hours required. Maybe you can find a friend or relative who is willing to do the same. The govt are so determined to strip benefits back to a bare minimum that we have to look into all the options for claiming everything there is.

Just had a thought if all us people on min/low wages working full time need to work harder and somehow get better jobs who is going to do all the supermarket/cleaning/carer etc jobs that will be left when we all take these higher paying jobs that mean we work harder?

coverup Exactly, it makes no sense

the main problem is that there just aren't enough jobs for the number of hours they want everyone to work

There are jobs if you can work very unsocial hours, Which is why migrants get work. But those jobs are extremely difficult to get childcare for.
Similarly there are jobs picking crops in the field. Done almost exclusively by migrants. DP used to do this job when young. Very hard physical work and farmers struggle to get anyone who are not migrants to do it.
But minimum wage jobs during hours nurseries are open, can be difficult to get.

but if the child doesn't have SN, then there is preventing parents to get some additional wrap around childcare. You cannot honestly have children and then expect to pay nothing at all for childcare and to use childcare expense as an excuse to want the general tax payer to fund decades of not working in the name of brining up children.

the situation is completely different die parents of children with SN where a lack of accessible and suitable childcare is a real barrier to employment

Except, miss, being part of a couple and managing childcare between the two of you with one working unsociable hours (nights are not uncommon ina wide variety of jobs at all levels, for example) is very different to being one person with all childcare responsibility and a job that at the point your relationship breaks down, is working unsociable hours. Employers not always able to help, even when sympathetic. Childcare after 6pm and before 7:30am difficult to come by, you can find a childminder who gives up 6 months later, my children’s after school club has randomly started closing at 5:30 meaning I had to turn down a position 15 miles away cos I wouldn’t get back in time.

Many people manage it. Some can’t. It is not always a reflection of fecklessness, lack of effort or an expectation that some9 e else does the job for you. Sometimes, you just can’t get it all to fit together.

I wouldn't think for a second that a lone parent can work unsociable hours without extra support. But most jobs are not at night/weekend but during standard working hours.

also miss, there isn't an abundance of wraparound childcare available - not all schools have a breakfast/after school club. and many childminders won't offer wraparound care (the ones local to me won't) because it takes up a space which could be paying all day. I'm a single parent with no family support, and a successful small business which i set up specifically so i was around for school runs (in the absence of suitable wraparound childcare)

if they force schools to open 7.30am till 6pm then maybe more single parents would be able to hold down a full time job, but they'd have to start funding it first! in the meantime it would be quite nice not to be lumped in as a lazy scrounger when me (and many others like me I'm sure) are working as hard as we can with the opportunities we have

Thanks @jingleladies I absolutely understand you wish to switch to your mum getting Carer's Allowance as I know inflation will erode the transitional cover for SDP over time. I don't have anyone in a position to provide additional care cover and apply for carers Allowance but thank you for the suggestion. Happy Christmas!

But most jobs are not at night/weekend but during standard working hours

At one point, I lived at point A. Childcare B was 15 minutes away on foot and opened at 7:30am. School C opened for childcare at 8am, 20 minutes on foot in opposite direction from A to where B was. I had to be at job minutes by bus in yet another direction from point A (remembering I was no longer at point A cos dropping off at B or C).

Now, I managed cos I had a car. That would be a car I held on to by the skin of my teeth after all the savings had gone and I had lived on benefits for 6 months. How would I have done that on foot and public transport?

Standard working hours 8:30 am start. 5 pm finish. Do it in reverse. How do you do that on your own?

No most minimum wage jobs are not during standard working hours. If I am honest, this statement makes me think you don't understand this area at all.

There is a lot of work for carers where I live. If you start with no experience, you will be working the unsocial hours. And unsocial does not mean getting wrap around care, it means trying to get childcare for over night work, very late evening. If you have to pay for this, it is almost impossible to find.

The other kind of job that is easier to get here is call centre work. You work on a rota covering weekends, early mornings and late evenings. I know people with with partners and kids that make this work. But unless you have family who can do childcare, it is almost impossible to get paid childcare on this basis. Call centres have been called the modern factories. They are in some areas a major employer. And the 8-6 jobs during weekdays tend to be given with promotion to more specialist roles.

Most migrants are men by themselves and unsocial hours are no issue for them. Most paid childcare does not start before 7am or go beyond 7pm.

I do think if I am honest that very young physically able men who are British are much less willing to do the jobs that migrants will do.

Thanks @Cosmic123 for sharing your experience of UC through the line of work you do and the misery it is causing for many.

but if the child doesn't have SN, then there is preventing parents to get some additional wrap around childcare.

Breakfast club opens half an hour after I have to be at work for an early shift

Afterschool club closes an hour before I finish work on a late shift.

I work pretty standard/average/common shift patterns.

Luckily Im not a single parent
And TBH if breakfast clubs DID start at 5.30 am to cater for retail & care workers would you really want young kids dragged out of their houses at that hour plus the staff running said clubs would have to be there even earlier..

To the person talking about landlords and arrears - why the f* shouldn't they be able to claim back more in arrears??!

Oh, look, another MN myth. This mythical 'wraparound care' exists in all locales in the UK. Haahahaa~

Where my friend is concerned is if she goes back to work and takes the 30 free hours (which in our area is available to anyone who is not earning a household income of over £100,000 per annum) so not exactly only open to the “poor” pretty much anyone is entitled to it, they will not get the UC. So no childcare element at all becaus their household income will be too much. Then when you think of travel expenses and the wrap around childcare cost she wouldn’t really be earning anything because it would all be spent on that so what’s the point? Then there school holidays where she would then have to pay for full time childcare for 2 weeks at Xmas for a week in Feb 2 weeks in April a week in May then 6 weeks then a week in October. Would be pointless for them as a family

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-warns-fresh-universal-credits-11773657

From the comments underneath the article

2 hours ago
Silenzio
Universal Credit(UC)was designed to make it impossible to claim.Tax credits are woven into the system but for those in work they have to prove they are searching for more work,or better paid work.I overheard an adviser tell her client to arrange a meeting with her boss to come into the Job Centre and talk about getting more hours.Can you see any bosses doing that?"

Farcical

What counts as a child for UC purposes? Up to 16? 18?

Until either 16 if full time none advanced education is finished OR the sept after you turn 19 if remaining in education.

Which for summer borns means a full academic year earlier than would have happened on tax credits and smack bang in the middle of their level 3.

Which is interesting given we alledgedly wanted more kids in education

Aside from all the issues surrounding implementation , long waits etc the biggest issue is that many people will be financially worse off . Including myself . Yes I work , 32 hours a week and I'm also doing a degree. Im a single parent , I'm doing everything I can . I will be significantly worse off. Complete joke

Watch it @clumsyduck some on here will say your not working hard enough. You know unless us single mum's are working 24hours a day to some we are just scroungers.

I've worked since the age of 16 I am now 46, i have cystic fibrosis which since the death of my mother in 2016 has got severely worse to the point I am unable to work now as I rely on home oxygen, my wife works but with the loss of my salary we are struggling, after using my savings to survive for 2 years the time has come to apply for benefits, we actually applied for working tax credit but we're told we are in a UC area.... after the rigmorole of the application process we have waited 5 weeks and been awarded £1115.0 per month, fabulous, then the deductions come into effect, you can earn up to £198 per month every pound after that 63p in the pound is deducted, my sickness benefit payment is taken off the amount also.... so after jumping through hoops we are actually being given after the deductions £28 this month and have been told we can have VOUCHERS for food banks.... if my wife gives up work to care for me we get more benefit, so I don't think it is designed to get people in work as the real benefit cheats will just not work and claim the full award, I have contributed all my life I need help now and it's just given in one hand and taken with the other..... my wife will continue to work because that's how we choose to live.... UC in theory sounds good but it's another way of cutting money and not helping the needy.... imho...