to just be appalled and feel utterly powerless

[Misstomrs]

The BBC news today has an article that 1 in 5 births have an incident or near miss that could result in harm (including terminal harm) for a mother or her baby at birth.

My own birth was appalling mis-managed and since then (18 months ago) I have met with the hospital and the University that provided the trainee who was involved in our care and who almost killed our DS. It’s been genuinely draining and traumatic for me to keep going over what happened, but I have because I don’t want anyone else to go through what we did as a family. It was all completely avoidable.

I’m left feeling that maybe it wasn’t worth it. The system just seems so broken. What’s the point?

The lottery of care is one of the main things that puts me off having any more DCs. Both the hospital consultant and Univeristy team were appalled when I explained that to them, but it’s true.

AIBU? And more importantly, what can WE do about it?

I am nurse and my first experience of child birth was horrendous, if I hadn't been so traumatised afterwards I would have delved further, but by the time I felt better I didn't want to drag it up again. I should have had a C Section basically, but by that time it was too late and they had to more or less rip him out of me. He could have died. I bled massively. Second birth much better.

There are lots of issues at play here, first in understaffing, without a doubt has an impact. Midwives have to complete so much paper work and their caseloads are over subscribed.

Second is the fact that many women now get through pregnancy even though they are very high risk. Particularly morbid obesity, diabetes etc. In days where pre hospital maternity care wasn't so good, these women would either not have conceived or gone to full term.

The final thing is is a very hard line on natural births. While it absolutely should be encouraged, it should not risk the health of the baby or child.

The NHS is at breaking point. In all specialities.

Of course you do reborn

But we don’t take the attitude well murder is common in Mexico, sexism & homelessness is more prevalent in India so we should be grateful.

The point is we can & should be doing better.

Reborn in the light of the horror stories women have told me who have nealry lost thier lives, babies etc I find it your comments seriously out of touch. Our failing hospital was branded the worst in the UK in the end. It wasn't the general reality of child birth at all.

And I fully agree with you @lalaloopylu. Unfortunately, threads of this nature tend to get muddied with stories, which are part and parcel of childbirth, rather than negligence or poor care.

So much wrong with the NHS but the aging and sick population is crippling it.

I would like to get the country healthier and then the NHS wouldn't be on its knees. I don't think huge population growth helps either.

My local maternity unit was built to cope with far fewer expected births. Population growth vastly outstripped that.

We need proper planning when immigration and other factors means hospitals cannot cope

And I don't doubt you @Itsbeginning. However, on this thread, on this day, some of the stories being told are the reality of childbirth.

Totally agree itsbegining.

Thanks for the article @TheFairyCaravan. So as expected, the 1 in 5 includes everything from delays in medication, to a woman slipping in the shower to mistakes in documentation. Of course, there are the more serious errors there, resulting in harm, but for the most part the 1 in 5 title is sensationalist journalism.

'We need proper planning when immigration and other factors means hospitals cannot cope'

And who will staff them when you bar the immigrants?

Gosh, sorry everyone, I’ve been Christmas shopping this afternoon.

@reborn I’m sorry if you think this thread is unhelpful. In my original post I asked the question about what we can do to make I better. As a midwife I am sure you have some valuable insight into that. From your comments more realistic preparation for birth would be helpful. It would be great if you felt able to share. I can see others have put links to the article so hopefully you’ve got that now.

Thank you to everyone who has shared their stories and their views. This feels such an important issue. I really want to get something positive from it if we can.

reborn - I do agree with your point re reality of childbirth. I don’t think social media helps. It’s really hard & scary plus things can change in seconds.

I had a semi elective c section with my 2nd DC (3 days of failed induction & transverse lie) & I was gobsmacked with the pain & how I had to shuffle about.

I'm always a bit confused when this comes up so maybe someone can enlighten me: how is it at all possible to have the same midwife see you throughout your pregnancy and also to attend the birth?? I can understand seeing the same midwife for appointments routinely in the community if they come to you or you see them at a surgery, but aren't the midwifes who work in the labour ward different staff? And they don't and can't work 24/7, so what do you expect to happen if you are about to give birth and the woman isn't at work or is on leave or a day off?

It's a nice idea but completely unfeasible unless I'm missing something.

I’m somewhat s

Exactly @crunchie. Those advocating going private...who do you think trains doctors, midwives and other hcp's in the first place? It's the NHS. Who fixes problems that go wrong in the private sector? Not them. Patients are bluelighted straight back to a NHS hospital. We're not too far away from the last time tories we're in power in the 1990s .. patients dying on trolleys in corridors and children sat beside buckets in school catching the leaks. We bahave worse than a developing country with first world problems. May absolutely does not have the answer but neither does Corbin. John smith and Gordon brown had it in spades. Labour only win when the aspiring middle classes are directly affected as in 1097. Dilemma for labour is that it only works when you have ideas and vision in the top team. Lacking just now

I’m somewhat surprised it hasn’t been mentioned on this thread yet but in the midst of all this, Independent Midwives are no longer allowed to practice and so women’s only choices are the disastrous NHS or birthing alone. Quite frankly, it’s terrifying and I would not have more children in this situation.

Also, while CS’s are inherently more risky, they are often required due to earlier unnecessary intervention.

Or even 1997

Yes I dont think that would be feasible either Lemon, Although I think it would be helpful to have the same midwife leading up to the birth as I had a different midwife each appointment. From my understanding from talking to one of my midwifes she said that she worked mainly in the community and topped up shifts doing bank shifts on the labour ward.

muddied with stories

..or, real women with real experiences. Relevant to the thread, I would say.

I think women are sometimes treated disrespectfully in childbirth. I know I was. For example - A midwife shouldn't just grab your wrist, and start putting a cannula in, without even saying a word to you. That happened to me. She acted like I was a petulant child when I asked what she was doing - she was a newcomer into the room - someone who hadn't been present at the birth itself, she didn't even introduce herself. Just marched in, grabbed my wrist.

I do sympathise with midwives too though - I had lovely ones, and not so lovely ones. I know they are under-resourced and under-staffed and working in a highly stressful and unpredictable environment.

Who says we are "barring" immigrants?

It is sheer folly to think that current levels of immigration aren't affecting the NHS (and maternity services in particular). High levels of immigration needs a lot of cash thrown at services for families and children. That's basic economics.

That was why our local maternity provision was at near collapse. It was designed for 5000 births per year and not 8000.

I think it's a tricky one. My son's arrival was horrific for various reasons including some not actually involving birth (but previous trauma brought back by too many drugs/similarities) however it's left me with a huge distrust of health care providers in general and maternity care providers specifically.

The biggest issue for me was honesty. My birth plan was simple... I wanted honesty through out. I didn't get it and I know that for sure because I had a debrief and they admitted there were multiple occasions where the truth was either twisted or withheld for "my own good".

The midwife trying to deliver DS thought he was stuck when I finally got admitted to the labour ward (waters gone for days, baby not properly on cervix, contractions all in back and legs) but she never told me that at the time even when I said I thought he was stuck. Instead I just got the it will be okay line. It wasn't okay because by the time I'd pushed for 2 hours and he still hadn't budged I hadn't slept in about 4 days, had way too much gas & air and didn't know my date of birth. I hallucinated my way through my failed forceps and emcs and ended up with a massive mental breakdown. DS ended up in NICU.

However what could they have done differently? I was dilating, even without proper assistance from DS's head so until he didn't descend, no one knew if he might. He was tolerating labour fine and I hadn't told them about the previous trauma they managed to trigger because I was too ashamed.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but from hanging out in various corners of the internet, I've seen women in the UK say they are traumatized from no/slow interventions and women in the US say the opposite. Is it a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't?

I also agree with the disrespect issue. Something might be incredibly routine to a midwife/nurse etc but scary for a patient. I laboured with a woman who needed gas & air for an internal & who cried etc however she then went on to give birth with just gas & air.

Never feel shy about asking questions.

I’m lucky in that i’ve spent a lot of time in hospital & had a number of operations so feel confident speaking up. The last time I had a nurse trying to put in a cannula & she blew 2 veins I asked if anyone else can do it.

Replying to Reborn. You’ve missed the point. We are not in Ethiopia or other third world country. We have a health service which is supposed to be the envy of the world.

And for me personally, my labour wasn’t managed appropriately. That’s why so many professionals visited me afterward because they knew it was a fucking shambles. I’d been in their care from 3am after losing about 400mls of fluid (“waters”). I was induced at 8am because that’s what was agreed with the Dr BUT, I’d already started labour naturally. At 12 noon, I KNEW I was further on than they thought. They kept saying “oh, you’ll be a long time yet and your waters haven’t broken”. I kept telling them I had lost my waters and again, it was poo-poo’d. They told me there’d be more than a glass full....it’d be all over the floor. They hadn't read my notes. For the last 8 weeks of ante-natal Care, my gynae was concerned that there was so little amniotic fluid. I was scanned each week for the last two months because I had minimal fluid. My midwife told me to get up, go take a shower, “do something to take your mind off it 😐”. My DS arrived moments after I got out of the shower. I was in tears and made to feel I was making a fuss. The head had arrived and suddenly, everyone rushed in, Drs, nurses, husband. It was like a runaway train. If they’d listened to me and taken me seriously, it would have been very different.

So Reborn, it wasn’t just that I was miffed that my big plan had gone arwy. There was no time for any pain relief because they didn’t listen to me.

Oh, and I was a nurse in the nhs for 26 yrs. a staff nurse, jr Sister then Senior Sister.