How on earth can I afford to work??

[Arrowfanatic]

Stopped working to become a sahm in the early part of 2011.

I now have 3 kids all in primary school and have been considering returning to full time employment.

However I've been totalling the costs of child care and I just can't see how it's worth it. Daily costs for before/after school care is almost £60 a day and that's after the sibling discount.

Holiday costs are close to £100 a day after discount.

I have no family or friends who could help, and the nature of my husband's work means he wouldn't be able to be reliable to do any school runs (works for the emergency services, shifts, minimum notice call ins, very rarely makes it out on time and is at least 1.5 hour commute away).

Any job I could get would not be a big earner, less than £25k. Even with childcare vouchers I can't see it being worth it. I feel like I should try to work, especially now the kids are all in school but it looks impossible. My husband's salary although good only just covers our costs as it is.

Is there anything else out there to help? We don't qualify for any benefits, except child benefit so no tax credit help.

It's pointless me working isn't it.

Get a part time job working school hours so you can pick up/collect. Use your annual leave (you and your husband) to manage in the school holidays - if you have a school hours job anyway you may find your employer is quite flexible in the holidays so you could work two eight hour days instead of working 16 hours over 4 days, for example. Pay for holiday care when you can't take annual leave, ask family or friends or move your working hours around to cover it. Thats how most working parents get by. Getting a term time only job would obviously be ideal. If you don't need to work and don't want to then don't.

Sending someone to work, when there's no financial benefit whatsoever (you should see how much I spend on transport and car park a month!) and the whole family is miserable. What's the point?

Erm, financial stability in the longer term, safety net if your OH loses his job, pension contributions for starters. Or do you already have significant pension and savings in your own name?

See if your dh can get one or two fixed shifts a week. Say if you know he will always be off by 2 on a Tues and Thurs then you can put the children into breakfast club and he can collect them. Look into doing agency TA work - which will be term time only. You might find a school that you like to get a more permanent job. Or cover supervisor in secondary school.

School hours work, weekend work, evening work, night shifts. You could temp on the understanding school holidays won't be an option.

Could you go back to university and get a better paid job?

Is that a joke?

Yeah OP, assuming you have the qualifications to be accepted for a degree, and the ability to pay for the course fees, in about 5 or 6 years you could have an OU degree that will qualify you for precisely fucking nothing unless you then go on to get a postgrad of some kind.
If of course you can find any time to study with three kids and a shidt working husband, you could have a new career in a decade!

Really fucking helpful suggestion.

I personnally wouldn't go back to work if it meant losing money after childcare is paid (or being left with a ridiculously low amount).

It was like this for me, but I didn't particularly want to work.
It doesn't seem worth it if you don't gain financially.
In the end I was a sahm/not working for 25 years.
I am working pt now though as no childcare costs.
It's not difficult getting a job after a long time of not working, you just can't be too picky to begin with what job you apply for.
I've been in a call centre for a year now and looking for different work as quite well qualified.
can you do a pt job that fits around your partners hours, so you save on childcare costs.
There's a lot of parents at my place of work who do this, and it's only 4 hours a night.

Had you thought about childminding for other people,. Then you would be at home with your children too

I found a job advertised on my local Facebook page doing admin work for a local small business, 1 day per week. I did this for a couple of years to build up my cv as I hadn't worked for 10 + years (sahm & single parent). It was minimum wage but I still managed to 'break even' over the course of a year despite the child care costs.

Once my kids were in senior school, I found an admin job 9-3, 3 days per week which was just about manageable over the school hols. It took a long time & 100s of applications to get that first job, and my current position. At times every single day for 2+ years I was despairing that I would never find something suitable, but you just have to keep looking, never give up and set your mind on finding something.

Also try an employment agency for term time only work. At my work we have had a lot of temp secretaries who are mums with school age kids who only work when kids are at school. They will cover for 1 or 2 weeks if someone is on holiday , sick leave etc.

DH and I both worked full time and shared the 'duties' as well as the cost (via joint finances). Is your DH willing to share the inevitable sick days and holidays as well as the costs? If not, you have a bigger problem than just the costs. I know there are some employers/jobs that make sharing almost impossible and I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about your life partner facilitating something that would be a good thing for you.

Another place to look for more 'family friendly' hours is at churches. Both my mum (bookkeeping) and my BFF (reception/secretary) worked at their respective churches and their hours were pretty good, IIRC 8-3. Plus BFF's church had a nursery onsite with reduced rates for employees.

Mum started back to work when I was around 7 or 8 and she was actually allowed to bring me to work during the summer. I got the keys to the church and had a great time playing the piano and running the mimeograph (Ha! gives away age) and folding the Sunday bulletins.

Any job you get really doesn’t have to be a standard 9-5 to allow for child care. It seems to me that a standard 9-5 is exactly what you do NOT need.

You look at times when you can work, and find some way to do that. You are saying you can’t work 9-5 but insisting any job must be 9-5, so it’s impossible.

It isn’t. It’s just harder, and requires more inventiveness.

BTW - I'm in a similar situation, i'd make a tiny profit if I worked now with 2 DCs, however a bigger issue is the practical issues, I gave up work after having DC2 when I'd make a loss. Between end of mat leave and DC2 starting school, DH has moved to a vastly better paid and vastly more stressful job. DH now couldnt do half of drop offs or pick ups, and realistically I could only use school wrap around care (available in our town 8-6) if DH could cover one end so I could go back into London and do a full day. (I couldn't drop at 8 and be at work for 9, couldn't leave at 5 to be back for 6, most jobs would be flexible one way or the other, but not both). If I have to hire a Nanny to get longer care hours, then I'll make a significant loss.

So I've given up the idea of going back to what I did before. I'm currently working at a Charity shop 2 days a week to close up the gap on my CV and looking at courses at the local adult education centre for January. The general plan is to start looking for something part time and local, and accepting my old career is done.

Realistically, i'll end up with more money each month if I can get shop work at minimum wage in our town that fits round the school run, than if I get the train up to London and work 9-5 in my old career, by the time I've paid for trains/tubes and a nanny to cover the childcare.

We don't need the money, but I feel the need to a) spend time with other adults and b) think about a pension. (This is slightly less of an issue for me as DH is shoving money into a private pension in my name as well as into his own.)

Give up the idea of going back to full time work doing what you did before. Start thinking about what you could do, and what you could do now to get your CV filled up so if the right part time role comes along, you are more likely to get it.

What about volunteering in the short term. There must be charities that would welcome your experience. CAB would be ideal. And they may pay for you to attend refresher courses. And you'd be in pole position if any paid roles became vacant.
If you volunteered one or two days a week, then perhaps see if you can find another job for 4 hours a day for a couple days. Or help out in the school and jump in quick if any TA roles come up?

Inventiveness, and more childcare! At times when childcare does not exist in most standard forms.

How does one work non standard hours when you have a partner working shifts, on call, and little notice, with a long commute?

1. Try to get a job where you can start after dropping at school, this will save on breakfast club costs.

1. Cost per term time week is £300. Term time is 39 weeks so on average £975 per month.

1. Assuming you get 5 weeks holiday and your DH gets 5 weeks holiday, you have got 3 weeks of school holiday left to pay for. (I use my parents for these weeks but appreciate not everyone can do this.) 5 x 5 x £100 = £2500 / 12 = average of £208 per month.

1. Total cost is £1,183 per month for childcare. Use childcare vouchers of 2 x £243, left to pay is £697. Split this in half with your husband = £348.50

1. If you get a job earning £20,000 you will get £1241 after childcare voucher, tax and NI. So you are quids in by £892.50!

1. If you get a job earning £25,000 you will get £1525 after deductions, quids in by £1176.50 per month!

So yes, you can afford to work. And the above is worst case scenario really. You might be able to get a job where you don't need breakfast club, or one where you can work from home so the DCs can come home after school whilst you're still working.

You can also possibly get help from parents with holiday cover, or offer swaps with friends and family. You look after their kids for two weeks and they take yours for two weeks. Lots of ways of saving on childcare.

financial stability in the longer term, safety net if your OH loses his job, pension contributions for starters.

you might have an over-optimistic view of what a few hours of work on minimum wage will bring

Can you look at working from home jobs?

Ive never been to uni/college so would be starting from scratch and couldn't afford the course costs anyway.
With the Open University you can take out a student loan and only pay back when you are earning over the threshold.

I am in the first year of an OU degree, as have 2 DCs. I also work from home in the evenings. It works for us but does leave me with very little free time to myself as DC2 is not at school yet so I can't get any work/uni work done in the daytime.

It makes no sense to "splitting childcare costs" with husband when you look at how affordable it is to work! That's not how it works in the real world. You look at the total, not part of it.

* Could you go back to university and get a better paid job?*
*
Is that a joke?

Yeah OP, assuming you have the qualifications to be accepted for a degree, and the ability to pay for the course fees, in about 5 or 6 years you could have an OU degree that will qualify you for precisely fucking nothing unless you then go on to get a postgrad of some kind.
If of course you can find any time to study with three kids and a shidt working husband, you could have a new career in a decade!

Really fucking helpful suggestion.* 

Why? The only reason I'm doing my OU degree is because after the first year I can go back to my old career but maintain a much higher salary with better hours. (And OU study is piss easy) because at the moment despite my experience I still have to work hours not conducive with having a life.

Snob much?

Could you go back to university and get a better paid job?
*
Is that a joke?

Yeah OP, assuming you have the qualifications to be accepted for a degree, and the ability to pay for the course fees, in about 5 or 6 years you could have an OU degree that will qualify you for precisely fucking nothing unless you then go on to get a postgrad of some kind.
If of course you can find any time to study with three kids and a shidt working husband, you could have a new career in a decade!

Really fucking helpful suggestion. **

Why? The only reason I'm doing my OU degree is because after the first year I can go back to my old career but maintain a much higher salary with better hours. (And OU study is piss easy) because at the moment despite my experience I still have to work hours not conducive with having a life.

Snob much?

Apologies for the shit holding, my phone is a cunt.

How variable are your husband's shifts? Are there any days that never change? Is he open to telling them he can't work certain times or when he gets a last minute call?

you might have an over-optimistic view of what a few hours of work on minimum wage will bring

It's better than nothing and its taking responsibility for your own financial standing.

The 'safety net' aspect of taking a part time job now is that at least if she needs to become the main family breadwinner in 10 years time, she's not got another decade of nothing on her CV. A low paid job to start with may lead to you being able to take more senior roles at the same company, possibly with longer hours, when your children are a little older.

Anyway, volunteering and additional study is my plan for this year while my youngest is in reception, with the intention to look at paid work next year - accepting it'll not be enough to set the world on fire, but at least will mean we've got a bit more coming in.

How does one work non standard hours when you have a partner working shifts, on call, and little notice, with a long commute?

This is undeniably difficult.

But the thing is, oftentimes the established status quo does not necessarily mean it has to be that way forever, with absolutely no flexibility.

For instance - decision made when Baby no 1 born that mother stays at home, as father's job is 1.5 hrs away, shift work and short notice sometimes, hard to get away on time.

More babies arrive, status quo very firmly established. This is how it is, right? Absolutely can't make any changes to father's work pattern - you know what it's like when I'm called up at short notice, that my shifts change all the time, that I often have to stay longer and am not back at home on time...

Or

Father agrees to speak to his work about possibly accommodations. Can't change the commute, but he's been senior and very flexible for a long time - perhaps there is some agreement that can be worked out.
Fixed shifts on X days per week (2/3) e.g. never on early shift so he can drop DC at school or always on early shift so he can pick them up, agreement that on-call he'll be rotaed on for only X occasions/days, or only on weekends, or whatever. Overtime/flexibility about staying past hours on certain days not possible any longer.

It is doable for most people if they both make the effort.

Of course it's easier for OP's DH not to do any of this - his life is fine as it is, thanks very much. But it really is risky long-term with 3 DC to rely on one salary for the rest of their working lives.

That's why I suggest OP starts from the basis of finding jobs she'd be interested in in principle and then working back to see how that might be facilitated.